Precast base as joined but separate wall: problems

[ron.sanpedro]

I have a complex building with a precast base in some places but not others, different heights, etc. This is part of an 8 building complex with LOTS of wall styles that MUST be consistent across models, so I am trying to keep wall styles simple and consistent, and still allow for varied conditions as needed. But I am seeing a number of problems as seen in the included image.

SETTINGS:
I have the exterior wall defined with the exterior stucco layer unlocked.
I have a separate wall type for the precast that is the same thickness as the stucco finish layer.
I have a ref plane defining the precast datum.

PROCESS:
I pull the finish layers up to the precast datum.
I place a Precast wall as needed, then adjust the top to the precast datum.
I join Geometry so the main wall so windows and doors will cut properly

PROBLEMS:
On the stucco wall, adjusting the finish layer doesn't affect inserts, only exterior face.
On the stucco wall, adjusting the finish layer doesn't affect end conditions, even when the perpendicular wall is joined and the finish layers adjusted on both.
On the precast wall, join geometry allows the openings to transfer, but the precast wall doesn't turn the corner at inserts the way the stucco wall does.

So, am I doing something wrong or is this just Revit getting me half way there and then falling flat? And if so, any suggestions for a kludge workaround? Hopefully NOT rolling this into the windows and doors, as we also have MANY of them, occurring at precast and not, and I would really rather not double my window and door count to deal with this.
And for what it is worth, we did try split face to address this, which would have worked fine if we just plopped the deign out fully formed, but this is going thru lots of revisions and split faces blow up and fail spectacularly in those situations. We fantasized about using Design options to explore the precast as well, but Revit failed to work like any of us was thinking there too.

Hopefully there is an answer here. if not, there is certainly a nice bunch of wishlist items in my mind. I suspect we will run into this stuff on half or more of our projects, so for us it is anything but an isolated situation befitting a kludge.

Best,
Gordon

[Andre Carvalho]

Hi Gordon,

Couldn't you try using stacked walls to do that? Either a single stacked wall containing two complete wall assemblies (one for the wall with stucco and other for the wall with precast, stacked on top) or creating the main wall as a regular wall without finish and using a stacked wall to create the thin precast and stucco. Then join everything.

Andre Carvalho

[Steve_Stafford]

Don't know that it will help you much but when you unlock layers and extend them you usually have to change the corner join conditions to miter in order to get them to clean up in corners...if you didn't already know that.

[sbrown]

I think you are doing it "wrong". If your finish layers(stucco) and precast are the same thickness, then you want to use the compound wall tool(not stacked wall). This is where in the wall assembly you split the finish face and assign a new material to it. If its not the same thickness thats fine too. just add a integral sweep to the wall make sure its thickness is the projection plus the stucco and it will cut the wall for you, no need to stretch a finish layer up or down. Now if the base precast steps you will use 2 walls one with stucco finish one with precast, edit the elevation profile of the bottom wall, then attach the base of the top wall to the bot. wall. Note that more wall types are easier to manage so don't hesitate to create as many diff. unique wall types as you actually have. From what I see in your image this should not be complex. Note the various settings for integral sweeps. "cuts wall" and cut by inserts. play with those to get the right combo.

[luigi]

I hate to reiterate what Scott already stated, but I would have created a single wall with the 2 materials defined in a single wall type's section....especially since they are the same thickness...but a sweep could be added at the base of that wall type as well...making the sweep cuttable....and now you simply deal with 1 wall, not 2 walls, with one of them modifying the unlocked layer...

HTH

I have a complex building with a precast base in some places but not others, different heights, etc. This is part of an 8 building complex with LOTS of wall styles that MUST be consistent across models, so I am trying to keep wall styles simple and consistent, and still allow for varied conditions as needed. But I am seeing a number of problems as seen in the included image.

SETTINGS:
I have the exterior wall defined with the exterior stucco layer unlocked.
I have a separate wall type for the precast that is the same thickness as the stucco finish layer.
I have a ref plane defining the precast datum.

PROCESS:
I pull the finish layers up to the precast datum.
I place a Precast wall as needed, then adjust the top to the precast datum.
I join Geometry so the main wall so windows and doors will cut properly

PROBLEMS:
On the stucco wall, adjusting the finish layer doesn't affect inserts, only exterior face.
On the stucco wall, adjusting the finish layer doesn't affect end conditions, even when the perpendicular wall is joined and the finish layers adjusted on both.
On the precast wall, join geometry allows the openings to transfer, but the precast wall doesn't turn the corner at inserts the way the stucco wall does.

So, am I doing something wrong or is this just Revit getting me half way there and then falling flat? And if so, any suggestions for a kludge workaround? Hopefully NOT rolling this into the windows and doors, as we also have MANY of them, occurring at precast and not, and I would really rather not double my window and door count to deal with this.
And for what it is worth, we did try split face to address this, which would have worked fine if we just plopped the deign out fully formed, but this is going thru lots of revisions and split faces blow up and fail spectacularly in those situations. We fantasized about using Design options to explore the precast as well, but Revit failed to work like any of us was thinking there too.

Hopefully there is an answer here. if not, there is certainly a nice bunch of wishlist items in my mind. I suspect we will run into this stuff on half or more of our projects, so for us it is anything but an isolated situation befitting a kludge.

Best,
Gordon

[Andre Carvalho]

...but a sweep could be added at the base of that wall type as well...making the sweep cuttable....and now you simply deal with 1 wall, not 2 walls, with one of them modifying the unlocked layer...

But if Gordan wants the stucco or precast wall to turn (wrap) at inserts and at ends, I don't think the sweep will do it. I think it has to be a layer, either compound by splitting the layer (that might work better) or stacked.

Andre Carvalho

[luigi]

Well, there is a "change sweep return" feature for the sweeps...have used it often

But if Gordan wants the stucco or precast wall to turn (wrap) at inserts and at ends, I don't think the sweep will do it. I think it has to be a layer, either compound by splitting the layer (that might work better) or stacked.

Andre Carvalho

[Andre Carvalho]

Well, there is a "change sweep return" feature for the sweeps...have used it often

Yeah, I have used that too and is a great tool, but as far as I know, if the sweep is embedded in a wall (part of the wall) the "Change Sweep Returns" won't work for inserts and openings. You can't select it at inserts... That said, if using a sweep the stucco won't be able to wrap the window insert.

Andre Carvalho