Moving rooms to a new phase?

[ron.sanpedro]

I have a project that is shifting from a single permit package to a Core & Shell and TI approach at effectively 50% CDs for the Core & Shell. Currently everything is modeled on the New Construction phase, whereas about 70-80% of what is currently modeled should be C&S, while the rest will be TI. Ideally I would like to convert to the new phases with the manual changes being made to the TI stuff as there is less of it. To that end, I combined New Construction with Existing, Renamed Existing to C&S, then created a new TI phase that follows. Now I can simply move the TI stuff "forward. All should be fine, except that the rooms are all on C&S phase, so when I change a wall to TI any rooms it defines blow up. And all the rooms seemingly can't be changed to the TI phase where they really belong. I really hope I don't have to delete all the rooms and replace them in a TI view, but that is all I can come up with. And to make matters worse, in a TI view, even set to Show Complete, I get no rooms, so we would need to set the view to C&S, delete all the rooms, set the view to TI and place all the rooms again. I am not even sure that will work as when placing a room (that was deleted from the C&S view) while in a TI view I only get New as an option, the deleted rooms are not available. But switch back to a C&S phase and my deleted rooms are available to place. This is a 360,000 SF campus in 8 buildings, 3-5 floors per building, and as many as 50+ rooms per floor in some places, with a ton of LEED, program and finish data in those rooms. In other words, a HUGE amount of work to start over from scratch.
So, is it really not possible to change a rooms phase? Am I stuck putting everything on TI and moving 70-80% of the modeled items into C&S just because the rooms can't be moved? And is it just me or does this feel like a bug and we should be able to change room phase just like any other object? Or perhaps I can and I just don't know how? Sure hope that is the case.

Thanks,
Gordon

[aretap]

I think I may be missing the question and it maybe more complicated. But can't you just select all the rooms and cut them (ctrl +x) and then change the phase of the view to the desired phase and paste them in current view (edit - pasted aligned - current view)??

[ron.sanpedro]

I think I may be missing the question and it maybe more complicated. But can't you just select all the rooms and cut them (ctrl +x) and then change the phase of the view to the desired phase and paste them in current view (edit - pasted aligned - current view)??

It looks like that may just work. Not as graceful as select all instances, properties, change phase; like I can do with every other kind of object. Especially since I will need to repeat the process on every floor, and I suspect redo all the tags in every view that isn't the one I copy to. But in the end I think it will still be faster than managing the modeled objects in the other direction.

Thanks,
Gordon

[ron.sanpedro]

So the cut/paste approach is going to work, but I have a new problem. In my TI views, I still need to see room names and numbers for rooms in the Core & Shell phase, like Restrooms. And of course those Restrooms need to show up in the Core & Shell views also, so I can't just move all rooms to the TI phase. At this point, in a view set to TI Phase, with Phase Filter set to Show Complete, I see no Core and Shell rooms, can't tag em, select em, nothing. I can get at all other objects, but not rooms.
What gives? Even in a very typical two permit set, I would still need room tags for restrooms, mechanical rooms, elevators, all the Core and Shell stuff. I would love to schedule only TI rooms, and having Core & Shell rooms show different tags automatically (god forbid, screened as existing, just like everything else) would be nice, but at a bare minimum I can't imagine getting a TI permit without showing Restroom names, so i have to assume I am doing something wrong here. Please tell me I am doing something wrong. Cause compositing a C&S Room Tags only view on top of my TI plan is going to really chap my hide.
Crossed fingers...

Thanks,
Gordon

[Steve_Stafford]

It comes down to this. A room can only exist in ONE phase. It does not persist across phases like other elements. It does not have a phase created AND phase demolished parameter.

When a room must travel into another phase "unchanged" you need to copy and paste instead of cut and paste. This means you have two copies of the same room, one in existing and one in new or whatever phase name you are using. Yes, you must keep track of them.

When you need to display rooms that are new and existing you need to create a special view that only displays rooms and their tags for the existing phase and overlay that view on the new construction or demolition view...build a composite on the sheet. Schedules also can only report rooms in a single phase at a time too.

This is a legacy issue from when rooms were a tag prior to release 9.0. As soon as rooms became a "model" element with height (for MEP) I lobbied and continue to lobby for rooms behaving more like walls, doors and windows.

[ron.sanpedro]

It comes down to this. A room can only exist in ONE phase. It does not persist across phases like other elements. It does not have a phase created AND phase demolished parameter.

When a room must travel into another phase "unchanged" you need to copy and paste instead of cut and paste. This means you have two copies of the same room, one in existing and one in new or whatever phase name you are using. Yes, you must keep track of them.

When you need to display rooms that are new and existing you need to create a view that only displays rooms and their tags and overlay that view on the new construction or demolition view...build a composite on the sheet. Schedules also can only report rooms in a single phase at a time too.

This is a legacy issue from when rooms were a tag prior to release 9.0. As soon as rooms became a "model" element with height (for MEP) I lobbied and continue to lobby for rooms behaving more like walls, doors and windows.

This is Revit being stupid, and NOT working like any $#% architect thinks. Release 9.0? In multiple YEARS they can't fix this BS? I know Steve, you are stuck in the middle and the PMs try, and... The friggin product still doesn't work and we get RETARDED workarounds. I would be ashamed of making a building this half @$$ed. I am not at all looking forward to explaining this process to the team. They already wonder if I am sane for promoting this thing so much.
Not gonna rant any more, cause I don't think autodesk has the capacity to get this right. Good just ain't a part of the business model. But just to prove my sense of humor hasn't been totally beaten out of me, I include a little image, think of it as my new Mind Map of Autodesk. Doubt it will last more than a few minutes, along with the rest of my whiny little post expecting more from a $5000 piece of flacidware.

Ugggh!

[Steve_Stafford]

Frankly, I'm a bit shocked that I had to tell you this. We've been discussing it off and on here since release 9.0 came out with the new "3D" room element. We discussed in the "bbbb" forums too back then. Sure it is a weakness, what software doesn't have weaknesses. It is an easy workaround, barely takes a couple minutes per floor/phase (less if you make a view template) ...set and forget. Move on.

How your staff reacts to such things has as much to do with how you present it to them. Every time you explain something to them with !$!@$@(*(&* Revit doesn't do this !@$!@ correct and you have to do this !@#$!@ workaround has a worse effect on them compared with just telling them what to do, without all the smarmy attitude. They can develop their own opinion, find it tedious, stupid or onerous...whatever but you don't have to provide them with a perspective. Half the time they are just happy to be able to provide ALL the room tags without having to type in values all over again like they would in some other software. It also isn't all that unfamiliar...we used to "xref" a lot of things into various files to minimize rework.

Gordon you need a vacation...

P.S. I'm not in the "middle". To Autodesk I'm a customer just like you. I have a different perspective about Revit and its pluses and minuses than you. I'm perhaps (the apologist moniker applied) more forgiving but I am just as critical of the product but I don't present my criticism in the same way or in the same venue.

[aretap]

Gordon welcome to my world!

I completely agree with you on the rooms issue. This is a weakness of Revit and it not a situation that should simply be looked at as a weakness. It should be solved and fixed by Autodesk! Basically what has occurred in Revit is that you really only have the option of using 1 or 2 features at a time. You can use Phases to create a project with multiple phases OR you can use Rooms. The two should not be used together. I agree what a stupid concept!! You need to be able to manipulate rooms just like you manipulate every other 3D object in Revit!!! Regardless of what Autodesk likes to say, a room IS a 3D space, that DOES exist, it is not just abstract!