CAD Files for clients!?

[Les Therrien]

I know we all send either full or partial file CAD files to subtrades for the creation of our beautiful buildings. However, I often get request from clients of the private sector for an electronic copy of the design.
I usually comply with their request knowing that they will never touch that CD-R again, however I am not fully comfortable in doing so.
Often times the client works for a Tool & Die or some other manufacturing outfit and have access to autocad and large format printing equipment. They simply want the file so they can scam free printing from the company they work for.

I am largely concerned that the drawings may get into the wrong hands and be re-used or altered without my consent. The people around here have no concept of the word copyright and if they think it's free, then it is!
I even question the ethics of the subtrades sometimes.

What type of policies or office standards do some of you have with this situation?

[marcosf]

This is a problem that I also have.

My clients are normally professional clients and when they ask me for computer files, sometimes is for filing purposes only, but in some cases I get the feeling that actually the file is to help some other less prepared "consultant" to produce a work that seems similar to ours, but lack substance. (We do a type of work that is very restrict in terms of market/knowledge and our clients are mostly major oil companies.)

The option of sending computer files in PDF format and lately DWF has helped a lot. But we still have the odd client that still requests the files in Autocad (Which I still use a lot. Currently I am about to finish the first Revit project.)

With the facility of having an unlicensed version of Revit as a drawing reader, the requests for the actual files will still stay for some time, if not indefinitely.

If the file that is given remains with the client, fine. If the file find its way to some other office, than it is a problem. Of course that there are legal ways of sorting this out, but the burden of the proof is quite something else. And it will most likely cost you the client.

This is something that I will include in my future contracts, although some clients will object to it, just because they got used to a different manner. But by adding a clause related to supplying drawing files, I hope to at leas make some clients aware of my concerns.

Regards

Marcos Fernandes

[BomberAIA]

You are opening yourself up for liability. Just send them PDF's and tell them you insurance company will not let you give cad files to clients.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

In the days before CAD clients would never have dreamed of asking for your original tracings. The client was never given more than a set of the 'as built' drawings. These were to be used for the purposes of facilities management through the life of the building. As electronic files became more prevalent clients requested (often demanded) virtual originals of the documents. Unless this is clearly spelled out in your contract I don't feel it is our obligation to provide them to the client.
You could try marketing your services at a later date or offer FM services as part of a full service fee.
I don't want to sound greedy but, as drawings become database this information is of great benefit and value to the client and it's my opinion that we should be compensated accordingly if we give up the rights to that database.
My $.02

[Wes Macaulay]

As things get more complicated, what are clients going to do with the file anyway? The Revit project file would be near useless to them. And too valuable to me to let go out of the office.

Even AutoCAD files are fine, IMO. They're nearly as dumb as PDFs anyway

[BomberAIA]

I agree with all of you. Lets not give away the house. The only reason the client would want the cad files are to use them without compensating the architect.

[Wes Macaulay]

I guess I can see the reason for not giving AutoCAD files... those are easily modified, and they do have value, even if they're dumb. DWFs and PDFs are much harder to turn into a CAD format.

[SkiSouth]

I agree with all of you. Lets not give away the house. The only reason the client would want the cad files are to use them without compensating the architect.

Not true. I furnish drawings as required to specialists per request by the building owner.I also had a client who used the files for in house design - retailer who did their own merchandising. Many many looks at where to put the stuff to sell.

But, I agree, don't just send the drawings, you need to claim ownership, and also declare the condition you offer the drawings. In example, for those of you who do this, a way we have handled it before (include this in your contract or letter of agreement...)

The Architect will provide, upon request by the Owner and xxxxx, sets of drawings necessary, either printed or by electronic transfer. These drawings are provided to xxxxxx directly via request from the Owner. Use of these drawings is contingent on the Owner and recipient to agree to the fullest extent permitted by law, to indemnify and hold the Architect harmless from any damage, liability or cost, including reasonable attorneys’ fees and costs of defense, arising from any changes made by anyone other than the Architect or from any reuse of the drawings and data without the prior written consent of the Architect.

Drawings will be transmitted to help facilitate the construction of this project. There is no implied as built verification of these drawings, nor additional coordination of changes to the architect's drawings after these drawings are transmitted implied. All subcontractors who are using this data are recommended to visit the job and field verify all project related requirements.

Under no circumstances shall transfer of the drawings and other instruments of service on electronic media for use by the Owner or tenant be deemed a sale by the Architect, and Architect makes no warranties, either expressed or implied, of merchantability and fitness for any particular purpose.


you also need this type disclaimer in the text of your emails when you transfer drawings over the internet...

[PeterJ]

You're right, I think, Wes. There is no reason for a professional client who is not going to abuse the benefits of having a copy of the information in digital form not to have 'em. They may wish to pass on building layouts to endless other people for furniture layouts, fire zones, alarm systems, lease plans etc., and probably we don't want to be bothered each time they need one that information with opening an archived project and printing the plan or what have you. Equally one doesn't want to give away our corn too readily so a dumb format that they can reproduce for free and which others can work over, with a dated disclaimer for accuracy vs time and alterations to the building after one's involvement is probably the way to go.

If you want to give them data that would be really useful in FM terms then a set of plan in dwf with the all the attribute information that dwf can carry would be really useful, but you can't write that dataset from Revit yet. R7 anyone? Maybe that is a smarter output than you want to give out but until someone reverse engineers the dwf format it is essentially a dumb package with just a little more in it.

[Wanderer]

I agree with all of you. Lets not give away the house. The only reason the client would want the cad files are to use them without compensating the architect.

The question is, who is the client, and what is their use for the files?

I work for a facility, all of our as-builts are done by outside contractors' sub-contractors. Our standards and our legal agreement say that we have to have autocad files as as-builts, it is important for our legacy data.

Either the files will be distributed to future contractors exactly as they were delivered to me, or the data will be incorporated with composite plans which my department creates and updates; these uses are CLEARY outlined in our agreement.

BUT, I still have problems with the gc getting me proper files, everyone wants to send me plt files or pdf's because they think I am trying to steal something from them.

In some cases, eg, mfg, that might be a very serious worry, but, in my case, as the end user of a long-lived facility, I actually NEED files that I can update as changes occur.

So, just a note from the other side of the fence, had to get it off my chest... thx