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Thread: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

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    Question Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    Hello all,

    I have a complex piece of equipment that I am trying to place into a family.
    It is equipment used for surgeries in hospitals, and it includes an adjustable bed, several booms, & ceiling tracks.

    Since we don't need to see this in 3-d, I created the family using symbolic lines.
    The family catagory is "specialty equipment".
    I set certain line types as subcategories in order to control visibility in various plans.
    For instance, I have a line type for bed, one for "machine movement", and one for overhead lines.
    I set certain lines to be visible at coarse, others at medium. This way, I can control how much detail is in the model by toggling the project view detail level.
    This works fine for my various floor plans, but I have yet to add the ceiling tracks to the model.
    As I mentioned before, the family is categorized as "specialty equipment", and is set at floor level.
    My ceiling tracks need to be ceiling based I believe: they need to cut though the ceiling tiles.
    I am at a loss for how to do this. I can think of a few ways - but do not know which is ideal.

    -My first thought is to create a separate subcategory for "ceiling lines" in the model. But the problem with this is that I will have to go into each floor plan's overrides to turn this off. The other problem is that they will only show as lines, and not "cut through" or "mask" the ceiling above.
    -My seecond thought is that I could create a nested family and add the ceiling-based track and specialty equipment into that family. Honestly, I don't know enough about nested families to know if this would work.
    -My third thought is to create a completely separate family for the ceiling track and add it to the project model. The problem with this is that the floor and ceiling equipments will not be associative, and if we move one the other would not move with it.

    Any thoughts?
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by jkady; 2008-09-23 at 04:18 PM. Reason: To attach the family

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    100 Club sgoodmansen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    I'm pretty new to revit, but it seems to me you should create 2 seperate families and group them in the model so they move together.

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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    Unfortunately, one family can not have more than one host.

    It's either hosted on the floor, or hosted on the ceiling. Not both.

    Here's how I would tackle it....

    I would create a reference plane, with a ceiling height parameter, that will drive the vertical location of my rails.

    Since the rails need to "Break" the ceiling pattern, I would make them out of a solid extrusion.

    See the attached for a quick and dirty example. Once you load it into a project, notice that it will look different in the RCP vs. a floor plan. Also, if you look at it in elevation, you will notice that you can adjust the vertical height of the family.

    Best of luck!

    Bryan
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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    Quote Originally Posted by saeborne View Post
    Unfortunately, one family can not have more than one host.

    It's either hosted on the floor, or hosted on the ceiling. Not both.

    Here's how I would tackle it....

    I would create a reference plane, with a ceiling height parameter, that will drive the vertical location of my rails.

    Since the rails need to "Break" the ceiling pattern, I would make them out of a solid extrusion.

    See the attached for a quick and dirty example. Once you load it into a project, notice that it will look different in the RCP vs. a floor plan. Also, if you look at it in elevation, you will notice that you can adjust the vertical height of the family.

    Best of luck!

    Bryan
    Bryan,

    Thank you for taking the time to show this to me.

    I do understand that a family can only have one host. Currently my family is non-hosted. (It is specialty equipment, and I place it on my floor plans at the floor level, but it is not floor hosted).

    Since my family is not hosted, would it make sense to create a ceiling hosted family and nest the plan within that?

    I guess my biggest point of confusion is why my family is showing all symbolic lines in plan and rcp, while yours does not. Does this have anything to do with cuttable vs non-cuttable families? Or is it that I used symbolic lines, while you used model lines.

    I sincerely appreciate your help! Thank you!

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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    Yes. Because I made my floor plan stuff out of model lines, these lines have a 3 dimensional quality to them.

    I drew them on the 0'-0" reference level. Consequently, an RCP view, which is cut at 4'-0" will not "see" the stuff drawn at a 0'-0" elevation.

    On the other hand.... Symbolic lines are always visible, from the orthogonal direction. So regardless of floor plan vs. ceiling plan, they will always be on.

    I don't think the nested family is going to work for you... Once a component is nested into another family, the nested family inherits the parent family's host. While your family is not hosted on a surface per se, it is hosted on a Level.

    If you're hell bent on hosting the rails from the ceiling, then I believe the only answer is to make them out of two separate components. I am not a fan of this, because when you move one, you have to remember to move the other. Yes, you can group the two components together.... but what if you're in a floor plan view, and you move the group beyond the extent of the ceiling... you'll get an error that the instance is no longer hosted... blah blah blah... this is guaranteed to lead to headaches.

    Ok. Best of luck to you. Happy revitting.

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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    Quote Originally Posted by saeborne View Post

    If you're hell bent on hosting the rails from the ceiling, then I believe the only answer is to make them out of two separate components. I am not a fan of this, because when you move one, you have to remember to move the other. Yes, you can group the two components together.... but what if you're in a floor plan view, and you move the group beyond the extent of the ceiling... you'll get an error that the instance is no longer hosted... blah blah blah... this is guaranteed to lead to headaches.

    Ok. Best of luck to you. Happy revitting.
    I completely agree with this - which is why I came here looking for any other solution than making two separate families (especially since it is in fact one piece of equipment, I would hate to split it up)
    After I posted my last response, I took a closer look at your family, and realized that the model lines vs. symbolic lines may be the key to getting my family to work right. I am using model lines for the information that I do not want to see in RCP...and so far it is working.

    Thanks again for your help! You saved me from quite a few headaches!!

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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    I updated my family so that within the family editor, my plans looked correct and my ceilings looked correct.
    I did this by using a combination of symbolic & model lines, as well as a solid extrusion for the areas that were to cut through the ceiling.

    Everything looks right in the family, but when I load it into my project, two problems occur.
    The first problem is that the solid ceiling elements appear on the floor plan. The second problem is that only some of my ceiling model lines show through the solid extrusion in the ceiling.

    I have attached the file. The only thought I have on my first problem is how I categorized the family (as "specialty equipment").
    The second problem I am stumped on... the lines appear to be drawn on the same plane, same linetype, same everything. I don't know why some show and others do not.

    Any thoughts?
    Thanks!!
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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    Working on updating my COBIE sheet and ceiling plans right now...I noticed that I can see shower assemblies that were added in the floor plans... This is because the family was created as a full 3D model.

    While you say that you don't require it to be in 3D...perhaps 3D would be the better choice in this situation?
    Michael "MP" Patrick
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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    Oh...your lines can be drawn based on the reference plane your working in. (Plane in Toolbar)

    Since you have a reference plane called Ceiling Height you can set that as your current plane.
    Also, you might want to add a parameter to your ceiling height dimension so that you can move that plane when its in the model.
    Michael "MP" Patrick
    "I only drink :coffee: until it's acceptable to drink :beer: or :whiskey: or :wine:"

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    Default Re: Complicated Specialty Equipment Family

    Quote Originally Posted by cdatechguy View Post
    Oh...your lines can be drawn based on the reference plane your working in. (Plane in Toolbar)

    Since you have a reference plane called Ceiling Height you can set that as your current plane.
    Also, you might want to add a parameter to your ceiling height dimension so that you can move that plane when its in the model.

    Thank you for your response...

    My lines are already drawn to reference planes. My floor plan symbolic & model lines are drawn on my ref. level plane. My ceiling model & model lines are drawn on my ceiling reference plane.
    However, the ceiling information is still showing up in floor plans... :-/

    Thank you for the tip about the ceiling height parameter. With this particular family, that is not necessary, since the ceiling height is regulated by the equipment. (Therefore, we only have one ceiling height wherever this family is used)

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