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Thread: Block References Itself *Invalid*

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    Default Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Hi Everyone,
    First Timer here and somewhat New User to AutoCad (3 Months). I'm using AutoCad 2008 for Design/Build with a Mechanical Company. I use alot of Blocks for Pipe Fittings from Charlotte Pipe and Foundry in the design stage and occasionally, I'll have to manipulate or edit one of the blocks to get the 2D view I need. After "Save As" (for example from '2 inch Sanitary Tee Front View' to '2 inch Sani Tee Top View') I try to insert the newly named block into my drawing but get the error message "2 Inch....Block References Itself *Invalid* and it won't load the block. Even opening a new drawing tells me the same error message. What am I doing wrong?

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    Certifiable AUGI Addict tedg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by kane333 View Post
    Hi Everyone,
    First Timer here and somewhat New User to AutoCad (3 Months). I'm using AutoCad 2008 for Design/Build with a Mechanical Company. I use alot of Blocks for Pipe Fittings from Charlotte Pipe and Foundry in the design stage and occasionally, I'll have to manipulate or edit one of the blocks to get the 2D view I need. After "Save As" (for example from '2 inch Sanitary Tee Front View' to '2 inch Sani Tee Top View') I try to insert the newly named block into my drawing but get the error message "2 Inch....Block References Itself *Invalid* and it won't load the block. Even opening a new drawing tells me the same error message. What am I doing wrong?
    It's usually due to the fact that you have a block definition (block name) in the drawing file with the same name (a block within a drawing you're trying to insert as a block).

    You need to do one of two things:
    1. Explode the block and purge the name in your new block drawing file.
    2. Rename the block definition inside your new block drawing file.

    Option 2 will result in a nested block, if you insert the new block drawing file, you should explode it on insertion so you have just one block definition.

    (my two cents)
    Ted
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    AutoCAD 2013 - REVIT Structure 2013 - MicroStation V8i - Windows 7 Professional - (dabble with Inventor Professional 2013)

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    Certified AUGI Addict jaberwok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Ted's right but I'd suggest that you use his option 2 not option 1.
    Option 1 could lead to you having two blocks (the original and your modified version) with the same name in one drawing - this will lead you into another problem.
    John B

    "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

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    Certifiable AUGI Addict tedg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by jaberwok View Post
    Ted's right but I'd suggest that you use his option 2 not option 1.
    Option 1 could lead to you having two blocks (the original and your modified version) with the same name in one drawing - this will lead you into another problem.
    Good point jaberwok, my "option 1" could result in you accidentally redefining your original block that you mean to keep.

    The bottom line is your new (different) block should be a different name when you bring it in along side your existing blocks you want to keep.

    ...If not you'll have problems like redefining your existing blocks, or your intended "new" block doesn't show up as new because it's taking on the properties of the existing blocks with the same name.

    (sorry for being so wordy...need to back off on the coffee)
    Ted
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    What I don't understand is, I save the modified Block under a new name, copy/paste it into my Tool Palette, yet the error occurs even if I open a new drawing that has no blocks in it what-so-ever. When I use the 'Insert - Block' pull down is when it gives me the error, but I can drag that same block from my Tool Palette into the same drawing that gives me the error message and it'll work....

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    Certifiable AUGI Addict irneb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by kane333 View Post
    What I don't understand is, I save the modified Block under a new name
    Explain how you do this. Do you copy-n-paste it to a new drawing or do you WBLOCK it out to a new file. Both scenarios could give you this problem, but the 1st is probably more prevalent.

    When a block references it self, it means that it has a copy of itself nested within it. When you copy the block to a new drawing, it's placed inside that drawing as a block. Now when you insert that drawing, you're actually inserting 2 blocks in one go because you're inserting the entire drawing including the reference to the block you've pasted in it.

    E.g. say the block's name is Block1. You copy it to a DWG file named Block1. When you now insert that file into another drawing it loads the file trying to generate a block definition named Block1, but it notices that one of the entities within this is also called Block1.

    If you used the WBLOCK method, it would basically "explode" the block into the new drawing. BTW, this is the preferred method to generate a single block to a file. Unfortunately you can still end up with this error if you rename that file, since the block you "export" can contain nested blocks of other names - so you could have renamed the file to one of those. This would basically engender the same scenario as above.

    Does the same thing happen if you use DesignCenter to extract the block from the file instead of inserting the entire file?

    BTW, a quick and easy way of making a duplicate block with a different name in the same drawing is:
    1. Use the RENAME command to rename the block;
    2. Then select one of its instances & COPYCLIP (Ctrl+C);
    3. Type U for undo twice (until Rename is undone);
    4. Paste the copied version back into the drawing (Ctrl+V)
    If you want to redefine one block with another, which is already in the drawing, use the Express Tool: BLOCKREPLACE (Express --> Blocks --> Replace block with another block).
    Knowledge is proportional to experience, but wisdom is inversely proportional to ego!
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    I have the same problem, and there never was a block by that name (the one I'm trying to insert) in my drawing, so it's not because of the referenced block. I think there is a bug with Autocad 2008 (actually I'm using Civil 3D Land Desktop Companion)

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeLeroy View Post
    I have the same problem, and there never was a block by that name (the one I'm trying to insert) in my drawing, so it's not because of the referenced block. I think there is a bug with Autocad 2008 (actually I'm using Civil 3D Land Desktop Companion)
    I'll bet money that you're mistaken.
    The problem of an existing block definition lies not in the file that you're inserting into but the file that you're inserting as a block.
    John B

    "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by jaberwok View Post
    I'll bet money that you're mistaken.
    The problem of an existing block definition lies not in the file that you're inserting into but the file that you're inserting as a block.
    I'll join mine with Jaberwok.(lol) Cheers ... what I usually do when things like this happens with me I try to do INSERT AS A BLOCK. Autocad will then use a very Unique Block Name.

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    I can create the error if I have a block inserted into a drawing, save the file, and then insert it as a block into another drawing.

    I endup with a block inside a block.

    I am spinning now

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