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Thread: LEVEL III?

  1. #1
    I could stop if I wanted to cek's Avatar
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    Question LEVEL III?

    I was discussing developing trends in Revit with a colleage and he mentioned that most of us produce Revit models at Level II and that it was necessary to produce Level III documents to acheive a higher degree of accuracy when using bridging software like www.innovaya.com to interface with estimating programs like Primavera or Timberline.

    This was critical to IPD (Integrated Project Development) approaches.

    Is there such a thing as Level III and if so is there any information that defines the specific depth of detailing, family characteristics, coding of elements, etc., necessary to acheive it?

    Thanks

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    Revit Forum Manager Steve_Stafford's Avatar
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    Default Re: LEVEL III?

    Well Innovaya focuses on phase and assembly codes (uniformat) so it's biggest battle is with content that doesn't have assembly codes assigned. The other issue is that they recommend that you use phases like "layers" or "containers" to organize the top level of the data and that hoses the use of phases for graphical representation...or at least can impede that use (from the Revit using Architect's standpoint).

    Complex elements are not granular enough to dissect in external applications because Revit treats them as assemblies (walls are a good example where the contractor may want multiple walls but the architect uses one wall with layers) but the other software would like bits and pieces. What is good for documents may actually be not so good for field work. If we built the models like the contractor wants then the "drawings" would be secondary and their "looks" might just be irrelevant. If this is really heading where we "want" it to...drawings will be secondary...perhaps even irrelevant. Heresy today...but we will see?

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    I could stop if I wanted to cek's Avatar
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    Default Re: LEVEL III?

    Steve, I take it that you have worked with Innovaya?

    It sounds as though the experience was less than satisfying.

    With regards to drawings becoming irrelavent I personally believe that this is inevitable but will not occur until the field interface between the BIM model and the people constructing the buildling is radically altered.

    I also believe that both Revit and we as the creators of the BIM model have to move towards a more integrated approach between design, documentation (model creation), construction and building life cycle management.

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    Revit Forum Manager Steve_Stafford's Avatar
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    Default Re: LEVEL III?

    No, I'm not saying it wasn't satisfying. It is focused on asking different questions to provide different answers. How it tackles that is different and can cause the team using Revit to approach how they model the project differently. A firm that is more concerned with how the drawings "look" than how "accurate" the model is will "hate" the paradoxes they have to face. A firm that finds itself not getting paid to deal with this level of detail in the model will "hate" it.

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    Default Re: LEVEL III?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Stafford View Post
    Well Innovaya focuses on phase and assembly codes (uniformat) so it's biggest battle is with content that doesn't have assembly codes assigned. The other issue is that they recommend that you use phases like "layers" or "containers" to organize the top level of the data and that hoses the use of phases for graphical representation...or at least can impede that use (from the Revit using Architect's standpoint).

    Complex elements are not granular enough to dissect in external applications because Revit treats them as assemblies (walls are a good example where the contractor may want multiple walls but the architect uses one wall with layers) but the other software would like bits and pieces. What is good for documents may actually be not so good for field work. If we built the models like the contractor wants then the "drawings" would be secondary and their "looks" might just be irrelevant. If this is really heading where we "want" it to...drawings will be secondary...perhaps even irrelevant. Heresy today...but we will see?
    Here's an article I came across discussing that exact issue.
    http://www.aecbytes.com/buildingthef...atomicBIM.html

    Happy Reading,

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    "Rock-n-Roll Architect" SCShell's Avatar
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    Question Re: LEVEL III?

    Hey there,
    Could not help it...had to ask....probably a naive question.....

    In a perfect world (to come), couldn't Revit be modified to produce whatever "view" or "data" is necessary for your specific needs at that time.
    For instance, I model something only once; however, I then choose how to view that model depending on my needs. Early presentation drawings look much different and show far less than do Construction Documents.
    So....
    Couldn't Revit be modified to show the drawings one way for Architectural type documents, and another way for the Contractor's use to do cost breakdowns etc?

    Maybe this is over simplifying things....huh?

    Just my 2 cents worth of questions.
    Steve

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