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Thread: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

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    Default Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    Hi, I found that HVAC zone object is not exported to IFC. Even in the IFC export option, I specify " HVAC Zone" to be exported to "IfcSpace". It does not work From the online documentation of IFC 2X3, HVAC zone should belong to IFCZone entity. However, Revit MEP cannot export IFCZone. Any solutions to get HVAC Zone which is different from space/rooms

    Thanks, Allen

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    Revit Forum Manager Steve_Stafford's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    May I ask what application are you importing the IFC file into?

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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    Energy Modeling.

    Since gbXML is very limited and invented as early design support tools, IFC is the direction for professional energy modeling.

    I'm a little confused that why IfcZone is not exported.
    The property of IfcZone entity defined by IAI is the exactly same as Mechanical Zone, where mechanical engineer grouped architectural spaces in to different mechanical zones.

    Thanks,

    Allen

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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    I hope AutoDesk can say something about that. Maybe "we do not support this yet".

    So I can just give up this and find an alternative way.

    Thanks,

    Allen

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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    What Software are you using for Energy Modeling??
    IES, eQuest, etc???

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    Revit Forum Manager Steve_Stafford's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    Quote Originally Posted by bingcat2007 View Post
    ...Since gbXML is very limited and invented as early design support tools, IFC is the direction for professional energy modeling...
    I guess this could be debated a bit... IFC is a bit of a house of cards and every application seems to support different versions or to different degrees. Which means I could export a very nice IFC file but the software you use doesn't address all of the data.

    In this case in my tests just working with an export to IFC from Revit and importing the IFC data back into a fresh Revit template...Zones and Spaces do not show up. I assume that Autodesk did not have time to map these items correctly. If they don't show up in your software then it is an export issue. If they show up in other software then it is an import into Revit issue and that's why I asked how you were testing...if using Revit only it isn't conclusive.

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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    Hi Steve,

    I think i got the answer,

    I'm not using any software in between. I just tried to read the IFC data from plain text and I found there is no HVAC mechanical zone object. So I did the same tests as you did, I also export IFC and import back to Revit MEP, the mechanical zones does not show up.

    So i guess the answer is: "....Autodesk did not have time to map these items correctly.".

    BTW, Cris.
    Revit supports IES as internal energy simulation engine for approximately estimating supply air temp, rate etc..You do not need IFC in this case.
    Revit also support exporting gbXML to GBS as an option for energy simulation, basically early design supports. Then, you can download eQuest input file from their website. This eQuest files are with the default material and HVAC systems inside...Of course, you can change it in their "Design Alternatives". Nothing to do with IFC as well.

    Thanks and cheers,

    Bing

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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    Just wondering, I have a friend that does Energy modeling as well

    and I quote "I checked out IFC and I couldn’t get it to work (the surfaces were all fractured) and plus I don’t know of any way to get the IFC data into any energy modeling software. Maybe someday." end quote

    I'm trying to learn energy modeling as well.. We use Revit to export to gbXML and use GBS and then eQuest...

    I also have a friend that works for IES and asked him that question as well and said no comment..

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    IFC is complex, top-down data structure. It is also an relationship database, trying to cover all aspects of building information. That's why it is called building information model.
    The geometry of IFC is following certain rule, but it's very complex. Unless you have a good understanding of EXPRESS language, you can easily get lost.

    Revit MEP is supposed to be a very good "Designer example" for BIM. I would expect that exported IFC should be nice and full. However, as Steve said, they do not have time to correct all these errors. I totally understand as a company, it has its own business model and development plan. Since Autodesk bought IES and GBS, the BIM has been addressed in the building performance simulation domain. Why they bother the IFC?

    However, as a researcher, we are always curious about more direct and easiest way to do energy modeling. That's why I'm curious about IFC. It's supposed to be complex enough to cover all aspects of energy modeling.

    I'm been involved in energy modeling for many years.

    Hope, I address some questions on IFC.

    Bing

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    Default Re: Mechanical(HVAC) Zone is not exported to IFC 2X3

    Quote Originally Posted by bingcat2007 View Post
    ...IFC is complex, top-down data structure. It is also an relationship database, trying to cover all aspects of building information. That's why it is called building information model. The geometry of IFC is following certain rule, but it's very complex. Unless you have a good understanding of EXPRESS language, you can easily get lost...
    This is its "weakness"...it is neutral and outside, not part of the various software companies that build the tools. Each company has to dedicate resources to speaking the "IFC" language. They have to have an interpreter to speak the language in order to let other software interpret the information according to the IFC dictionary.

    This is why I called it a "house of cards", too many assumptions and dependencies with NO control. I can take one month of Spanish and claim to speak the language but it won't take long for someone who speaks Spanish to learn the truth. Unfortunately the software vendors all claim to speak IFC but we only find out how well when we use other software that also claims to speak IFC...but...and in a circle we go. Nobody is born speaking IFC, there are no natural IFC speakers to learn from.

    I have no objection to IFC and the idealistic worthiness of it but I remain skeptical of it achieving what it hopes to accomplish. It seems to me that gbXML has a greater chance of success because it is built into working software already and more energy has been put into making it work than IFC. Not IFC's fault...again because they have no control over what software companies actually do. A killer proprietary solution that works has a better chance of become a "standard" that the industry adopts and refines than the reverse.

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