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Thread: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

  1. #21
    I could stop if I wanted to CEHill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    Blackbox,

    I too would like to lessen my time in maintaining verticals (Mechanical) and add-ons (CADWorx)

    I am guessing that I construct a separate folder for each flavor with this folder containing it own unique ACADDOC.LSP file.
    QUESTION: Is that the way you do it?

    I am trying to better understand how to include code in the desktop icon field to fire each flavor and thereby loading its own ACADDOC.LSP file.
    QUESTION: Could you explain how and what is needed i.e., /p or profile name, etc., to start up a particular AutoCAD flavor?

    Many thanks to you, Blackbox, for the explicit and detailed CONDitional code if I choose to go that route.
    Yours,

    Clint
    Hill

    ------------------
    CAD Systems Operation and Management
    Chemical Plant Process + Mechanical Design Focus Areas

  2. #22
    Administrator BlackBox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    Blackbox,

    I too would like to lessen my time in maintaining verticals (Mechanical) and add-ons (CADWorx)

    I am guessing that I construct a separate folder for each flavor with this folder containing it own unique ACADDOC.LSP file.
    QUESTION: Is that the way you do it?

    I am trying to better understand how to include code in the desktop icon field to fire each flavor and thereby loading its own ACADDOC.LSP file.
    QUESTION: Could you explain how and what is needed i.e., /p or profile name, etc., to start up a particular AutoCAD flavor?

    Many thanks to you, Blackbox, for the explicit and detailed CONDitional code if I choose to go that route.
    Couple of things you might want to take into account when planning... And for this to work well, it does require planning... Be sure to make it as simple as possible, easy for others to follow, practical, and above all else, scaleable.



    Firstly, there's a difference between version year, and platform (i.e., AutoCAD 2014, and Civil 3D 2014)... Separate is the topic of multiple Profiles within same application.

    I do utilize separate folders for each platform, within each version year... But I do also maintain a 'common' folder to minimize non-essential duplication of data. I'm comfortable having so many duplicate Acad.lsp, and AcadDoc.lsp files, and even many duplicate strings within to set _that_ version's SFSP (small data footprint), because I use VLIDE Projects to manage each.

    Generally speaking, we produce using one internal Profile for most projects. Outside of that, we only have a handful of client-specific Profiles, for which I have setup a 'client' folder, which mimics this same support structure, which comes with it's own application icon to configure the /p switch, etc. and if I'm bored I'll even change the icon to the client's logo via Gimp (I'm all for visual feedback).



    Backing up to the topic of multiple, internal Profiles being maintained from within the same Acad.lsp file, the CONDitional statement I posted would allow you to programmatically set the needed SFSP at session start by matching the current profile (the one configured in your application icon's /p switch). We do not use any cumbersome 3rd party tools, as we mostly work with Civil 3D, and only really require AutoTURN, and Raster Design for most of our work... Other tools. utilities, etc. are there for production value, and efficiency, mostly maintained by me, and loaded either by CUI, MNL, AUTOLOADed by AcadDoc.lsp, Registry loader/Autoloader (for newer versions, via PackageContents.xml)... Most of which is relative-pathed to my 'common' folder.



    [Edit] - Autoloader is becoming a big part of the customization work I do these days, especially with attempting to simultaneously launch a website, and publish multiple projects at Autodesk Exchange. Autoloader is proving to have a few kinks (particularly with unnecessary duplicate CUIx copies, etc.), but nothing that would preclude other benefits for 3rd party developers.



    I do hope this helps make (more?) sense to you.

    Cheers
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    Last edited by BlackBox; 2013-06-14 at 03:52 PM.
    "How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

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  3. #23
    Administrator BlackBox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    ... Might help if I actually uploaded the screen shot.

    Image attached above (taken a while ago)... We've since added Civil 3D 2014, and others.
    "How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

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  4. #24
    I could stop if I wanted to CEHill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    1 Picture = 1K Words, Blackbox!
    Yours,

    Clint
    Hill

    ------------------
    CAD Systems Operation and Management
    Chemical Plant Process + Mechanical Design Focus Areas

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    1 Picture = 1K Words, Blackbox!
    Happy to help.

    "How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

    Sincpac C3D ~ Autodesk Exchange Apps

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  6. #26
    I could stop if I wanted to CEHill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    One last she-bang on the topic...

    Backing up to the topic of multiple, internal Profiles being maintained from within the same Acad.lsp file, the CONDitional statement I posted would allow you to programmatically set the needed SFSP at session start by matching the current profile (the one configured in your application icon's /p switch).
    The CONDitional statement looks very promising and I will attempt to make it a successful implementation here. As odd as it sounds at such a large corporation, I am the only full version AutoCAD user here and have admin privilege on my machine and basically support all of the AutoCAD Lite users, do production work only to support company activities as part of an internal engineering support department, and am allowed a portion of my time to develop my seat of full version of AutoCAD.

    Also, you mention the ACAD.LSP file instead of the ACADDOC.LSP file. Why? I plan on coding within the ACADDOC.LSP file only.

    We do not use any cumbersome 3rd party tools, as we mostly work with Civil 3D, and only really require AutoTURN, and Raster Design for most of our work...
    For a 3rd party tool, CADWorx requires only a custom profile for each one of its four applications and an ARX file for only three of them. Intergraph has maintained the simplicity in which is a hallmark of CADWorx.

    ...Most of which is relative-pathed to my 'common' folder.
    In my mind, a 'common' folder would contain subfolders for general items such as title blocks/drawing borders, general LISP routines, temp file folder, plotter support folder, etc. Is that consistent with your usage of the 'common' folder?
    Yours,

    Clint
    Hill

    ------------------
    CAD Systems Operation and Management
    Chemical Plant Process + Mechanical Design Focus Areas

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    The CONDitional statement looks very promising and I will attempt to make it a successful implementation here. As odd as it sounds at such a large corporation, I am the only full version AutoCAD user here and have admin privilege on my machine and basically support all of the AutoCAD Lite users, do production work only to support company activities as part of an internal engineering support department, and am allowed a portion of my time to develop my seat of full version of AutoCAD.
    That sounds like a great opportunity (despite the LT usage); I'd love to find a position where I could utilize my proficiencies to serve as a force multiplier for others within the company... Sadly, that is not the case with my current employer... They don't really want anyone with any sort of ambition, they just want basic CAD users, so I keep this, and other talents to myself.

    [Edit] - ... And share here on the forums, of course; 'You guys' appreciate the talent, effort, etc., which makes it worth sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    Also, you mention the ACAD.LSP file instead of the ACADDOC.LSP file. Why? I plan on coding within the ACADDOC.LSP file only.
    Correct.

    Acad.lsp and AcadDoc.lsp each serve a different purpose... The former is loaded only once, at session start, by default (see the ACADLSPASDOC System Variable), whereas the latter is loaded each time a Document is opened, or created.

    Now, given the task of configuring SFSP based on the ActiveProfile Object's required settings, one need only set the SFSP once for the session to function properly.

    That said, the only justification I can stretch to deem worth placing this task's code within AcadDoc.lsp is if you were concerned about a user changing the ActiveProfile mid-session... But even still, there's a lot more than simply AcadDoc.lsp to consider.

    For example, you'd need a DocManager (DocumentCollection) Event handler which would detect when a user switches to another open Document (potentially causing a subsequent per-Document data storage mechanism that stores the ActiveProfile value within the ActiveDocument when the DocumentToBeDeactivated Event is raised, etc... A not-so-simple-task better left to the .NET API, if it absolutely had to come to that level of complexity... Again, I think that's a bit overboard, but I've seen stranger requests).

    Just train users to use one session for each profile needed, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    For a 3rd party tool, CADWorx requires only a custom profile for each one of its four applications and an ARX file for only three of them. Intergraph has maintained the simplicity in which is a hallmark of CADWorx.
    I have no experience with these 3rd party applications.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    In my mind, a 'common' folder would contain subfolders for general items such as title blocks/drawing borders, general LISP routines, temp file folder, plotter support folder, etc. Is that consistent with your usage of the 'common' folder?
    I've seen, and worked with two different scenarios... The first mimics AutoCAD's default support structure, with little more than a basic ..\Support\ folder and everything (i.e., .ARG, .LSP, .LIN, .PAT, .LAS, .PC3, .PGP, etc.) all dumped in that one folder, and I've seen it where everything is in it's own folder (mostly), logically grouped by content type (i.e., CUIx + Icons, etc.).

    The reality is each has trade-offs. I'd like to believe that somewhere in the middle is a highly adaptable position to take... Better organization than the former, yet simpler than the latter... It's lean, it's clean, but has enough complexity that someone unfamiliar can pick up where I left off from (given an advanced user, new CAD lead).
    "How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

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  8. #28
    I could stop if I wanted to CEHill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    That sounds like a great opportunity (despite the LT usage); I'd love to find a position where I could utilize my proficiencies to serve as a force multiplier for others within the company... Sadly, that is not the case with my current employer... They don't really want anyone with any sort of ambition, they just want basic CAD users, so I keep this, and other talents to myself.
    WORK ENVIRONMENTS
    Two of the three places I have worked appreciated the extra mile I took as a self-taught CAD go to guy. Those two places were in manufacturing engineering support. The one place where my efforts were not appreciated in the least (like your situation) was in engineering consulting which I voluntarily left at the first opportunity; moving back into being overhead only in the drastically different and even pace in mfg. engr. support where training opportunities abound. (Unfortunately for me, at an earlier manufacturing company I didn't recognize the importance of learning to program CAD like I am now ten years later).

    PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES
    Also, I would like to know which programming languages you use for customizing AutoCAD?
    I am learning LISP and VB.NET via Jerry Winters book and experienced a top-notch, online live course taught by Jerry - highly recommended - taken last summer (see www.vb.cad.com).

    STARTUP PROGRESS
    I hope to post questions as I code and test today. I will use ACAD.LSP to include the COND code. The main dependency will be the /p switch in the desktop icons I wil use; differentiating the flavors of CADWorx and AutoCAD as well.
    Things are a bit cloudy as I am getting my head around and developing a plan to incorporate using both the ACAD and ACADDOC.lsp files; deciding which code to include where.
    Like I said ACAD.LSP will include the COND and the ACADDOC.LSP will include my LISP routines as well as some variable settings (as I have some examples of others' ACADDOC.LSP file with some nifty custom code).

    Does it make sense to organize both files in the way I describe? I am open to ideas and love examples and snippets!!!

    MECHANICAL FLAVOR
    BTW, AutoCAD Mechanical has a default ACADDOC.LSP file with code to load its toolset that a colleague has learned to customize for his company.
    I will duplicate his code to load both the standard AutoCAD Mechanical toolset as well as include my custom goodies under a Profile called out in a desktop icon /P switch.
    Last edited by chillme1; 2013-06-18 at 01:09 PM.
    Yours,

    Clint
    Hill

    ------------------
    CAD Systems Operation and Management
    Chemical Plant Process + Mechanical Design Focus Areas

  9. #29
    Administrator BlackBox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    WORK ENVIRONMENTS
    Two of the three places I have worked appreciated the extra mile I took as a self-taught CAD go to guy. Those two places were in manufacturing engineering support. The one place where my efforts were not appreciated in the least (like your situation) was in engineering consulting which I voluntarily left at the first opportunity; moving back into being overhead only in the drastically different and even pace in mfg. engr. support where training opportunities abound. (Unfortunately for me, at an earlier manufacturing company I didn't recognize the importance of learning to program CAD like I am now ten years later).
    Thanks for sharing; I'm not even after a 100% overhead role honestly, just appreciation for the skills I've earned, and the opportunity to step up. Unfortunately for me, that does not seem to be of any interest here, which is why I've just wrapped up a one-year contract as a part-time developer consultant for an out of state Autodesk developer, working remotely, nights, and weekends from home... And have started to publish some of my work at Autodesk Exchange.

    ... Now I just need to find a single opportunity that combines the two. LoL

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES
    Also, I would like to know which programming languages you use for customizing AutoCAD?
    I am learning LISP and VB.NET via Jerry Winters book and experienced a top-notch, online live course taught by Jerry - highly recommended - taken last summer (see www.vb.cad.com).
    I started out using LISP, skipped VBA, and jumped into .NET... Initially VB for the similar syntax given Visual LISP's ActiveX COM API, but have since completely switched to C# which I find to be a great 'gateway' language for ultimately stepping up into ObjectARX (C++ for AutoCAD), and also cross-platform development for Mac via XCode, etc..

    ... I'm only scratching the surface of what I can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    STARTUP PROGRESS
    I hope to post questions as I code and test today. I will use ACAD.LSP to include the COND code. The main dependency will be the /p switch in the desktop icons I wil use; differentiating the flavors of CADWorx and AutoCAD as well.
    Things are a bit cloudy as I am getting my head around and developing a plan to incorporate using both the ACAD and ACADDOC.lsp files; deciding which code to include where.
    Like I said ACAD.LSP will include the COND and the ACADDOC.LSP will include my LISP routines as well as some variable settings (as I have some examples of others' ACADDOC.LSP file with some nifty custom code).

    Does it make sense to organize both files in the way I describe? I am open to ideas and love examples and snippets!!!
    Again, I have no experience with CADWorx, but I use Acad.lsp for tasks being performed at session start, such as loading ARX/NET assemblies, customizing the profile, etc.. I use AcadDoc.lsp for tasks being performed with each Document opened such as loading reactors, setting global/system variables, AUTOLOAD-ing other code files, etc..

    Quote Originally Posted by chillme1 View Post
    MECHANICAL FLAVOR
    BTW, AutoCAD Mechanical has a default ACADDOC.LSP file with code to load its toolset that a colleague has learned to customize for his company.
    I will duplicate his code to load both the standard AutoCAD Mechanical toolset as well as include my custom goodies under a Profile called out in a desktop icon /P switch.
    I've never used Mechanical, but I thought it had an AcadM.lsp for that, instead of commandeering AcadDoc.lsp, no?
    "How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

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  10. #30
    I could stop if I wanted to CEHill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Programmatically Assigning Support File Search Paths

    I've never used Mechanical, but I thought it had an AcadM.lsp for that, instead of commandeering AcadDoc.lsp, no?
    Ever since I explored using customizing AutoCAD Mechanical via the acaddoc.lsp file, there has been a Mechanical-specific, acaddoc.lsp file.
    There are calls within this acaddoc.lsp file to an independent acadm.lsp file as well as some minor changes to other code in the 2012 version acaddoc.lsp for this flavor.
    It has always been necessary to only include custom code after the existing Mechanical-specific code.

    --------------------------
    I send a hearty note of thanks to you for sharing your varied and in-depth CAD programming experiences.
    Hearing your story encourages me to push the envelope by growing my programming skills.
    --------------------------

    Streamlining via acad.lsp
    I will try to implement the acad.lsp concept with the COND statements graciously given.
    However as the sole CAD person in the organization, I lost a significant drawing production time while creating and testing my current successful but rather cludgy (maintenance-wise - having no less than five versions of acaddoc.lsp to update) customization in the acaddoc.lsp file(s) that do not rely on the acad.lsp.
    I do know the payback is in the automation that was achieved up to this point.

    Blackbox: Please monitor this thread from time to time as, starting next week, I will devote some time in developing your excellent suggestions.
    Last edited by chillme1; 2013-07-10 at 03:05 PM.
    Yours,

    Clint
    Hill

    ------------------
    CAD Systems Operation and Management
    Chemical Plant Process + Mechanical Design Focus Areas

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