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Thread: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by blothian View Post
    One other final question before I head home, on this clip I have a shape which I want to stretch 5 segments in vertically in a single operation (2 horizontal lines, 1 vertical, 2 45 degree chamfer lines). How is this achieved in AutoCAD???
    Window Right to Left, pick base point, move curser in direction you want to go, type distance, press enter. I rarily use ortho so for something like this I would hold down the shift key to toggle it on till pressing enter.

    Pretty basic stuff, have you consitered using help before posting here? With a command active pressing F1 will bring up help for the command. Was there no help in MS?

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Beauford View Post
    Pretty basic stuff, have you consitered using help before posting here? With a command active pressing F1 will bring up help for the command. Was there no help in MS?
    I'm not exactly sure how this is relevant to the AutoCAD query as I fail to see how MS help will provide the answer to an AutoCAD question and unless I am mistaken it sounds quite sarcastic in its tone (to answer the question, you can clearly see on the clips I post that there is a help menu). I do realise that it is quite a basic query but when you come from another software package that you've been using for 17 years, sometimes the simplest task can be not so obvious due to differences between both applications in terminology and operation. I do feel I'm making good progress but hit the odd hurdle and of course the first place I refer to is the online help, then Google if the help doesn't provide an answer, failing that I post here.

    I can achieve the stretch now that I understand a little more the nuisances of a crossing window but my lack of misunderstanding is partly due to element selection being another area where AutoCAD is less intuitive as once you place a crossing over the part you want to stretch and press enter, the entire polyline highlights which is quite confusing to a MS user as you can no longer see which part of the polyline you are going to affect. Compare that with my last clip, MS places a temporary rectangle that defines the boundary for the stretch command. The benefit here is it the boundary is always visible until I make it go away so I can always see what is going to be stretched. It doesn't matter if its drawn left to right or right to left, it always stretches the end points regardless.

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by blothian View Post
    I can achieve the stretch now that I understand a little more the nuisances of a crossing window but my lack of misunderstanding is partly due to element selection being another area where AutoCAD is less intuitive as once you place a crossing over the part you want to stretch and press enter, the entire polyline highlights which is quite confusing to a MS user as you can no longer see which part of the polyline you are going to affect. Compare that with my last clip, MS places a temporary rectangle that defines the boundary for the stretch command. The benefit here is it the boundary is always visible until I make it go away so I can always see what is going to be stretched. It doesn't matter if its drawn left to right or right to left, it always stretches the end points regardless.
    Had no way of knowing MS didn't have the window/crossing selection option, you will find it very useful. Once you select your base point move the curser and you will see the objects being stretched dynamicly. Not sure why you would want to see a previous selection window, if it included objects on locked layers for example they wouldn't be stretched anyway.

    Start the streth command and press F1 gives you detailed help including selecting using a crossing window. Feel free to ask questions here, just wanted to know if you knew how to use AutoCAD help.

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    MS does have crossing/window as well and for normal element selection operations no boundary is visible just like in AutoCAD. When using the Ms Stretch command or Fence command (not the same thing as AutoCAD Fence, its a tool for element manipulation that I don't think AutoCAD has at all) you get a boundary that defines where the stretch operation will affect. The big difference between AutoCAD and MS for many tasks is that in AutoCAD you need select elements and confirm the selection, in MS the affect the elements as you go so in the case of the MS stretch you don't need to designate which elements will be stretched as per the clip.

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by blothian View Post
    MS does have crossing/window as well and for normal element selection operations no boundary is visible just like in AutoCAD. When using the Ms Stretch command or Fence command (not the same thing as AutoCAD Fence, its a tool for element manipulation that I don't think AutoCAD has at all) you get a boundary that defines where the stretch operation will affect. The big difference between AutoCAD and MS for many tasks is that in AutoCAD you need select elements and confirm the selection, in MS the affect the elements as you go so in the case of the MS stretch you don't need to designate which elements will be stretched as per the clip.
    Besides the default Window AutoCAD has Last, Previous, All, Fence, WPolygon, CPolygon, & Select Similar. There is also Dialog box options like Quick Select... & Selection Filters... Others include the Express Tool Fast Select and included lisp routines SSX.lsp & Getsel.lsp. With a wide array of programming options including lisp a more specialized method isn't to difficult. Don't know what your MS Fence is (This is an AutoCAD forum afterall) but if it's something you need I'm sure we can explain how you can get the results you need in AutoCAD.

    If "in the case of the MS stretch you don't need to designate which elements will be stretched as per the clip" how does it know which elements to stretch? Do you mean you can't lock layers to prevent them from being modified accidently?

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    I wouldn't say having an AutoCAD equivalent of a MS Fence is something I need (though it would be nice!) but I'm sure you will appreciate that a fair part of my learning of AutoCAD will be based on knowledge of MS as many of the tools will perform in the same way but at the same time I'm here to learn how to understand how to go about the same task in AutoCAD. I'm familiar with the standard implied windowing and other examples you stated though lisp routines are still a grey area to me at this early stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Beauford View Post
    If "in the case of the MS stretch you don't need to designate which elements will be stretched as per the clip" how does it know which elements to stretch? Do you mean you can't lock layers to prevent them from being modified accidently?
    All elements are available to be stretched whenever the boundary passes over an elements endpoints however to prevent this you can either:
    • Isolate the elements you only want to stretch using a displayset
    • Lock individual elements in the affected area that you dont want stretched
    • Lock layers (less likely due to the other alternatives being being simpler)


    The MS fence is a transient aid for complex element manipulation and unlike a normal MS or AutoCAD selection boundary (be it window/crossing/AutoCAD Fence etc...) it remains on-screen even after any view operations and can be moved, modified or saved for future use prior to starting any fence-aided operation(fence stretch/Fence move/fence copy etc..). The fence boundary has a number of selection modes which affect how any future commands act upon elements that the fence either contains and/or overlaps. If you want to understand it a bit more you can check out here and here.

    From what I have seen so far, I don't think AutoCAD has got an equivalent though it would be good if it does.

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by blothian View Post
    All elements are available to be stretched whenever the boundary passes over an elements endpoints however to prevent this you can either:
    • Isolate the elements you only want to stretch using a displayset
    • Lock individual elements in the affected area that you dont want stretched
    • Lock layers (less likely due to the other alternatives being being simpler)
    Or you can allow these objects to be selected and either press SHIFT and pick them or type r and pick them and remove them from the selection set.
    OR you can "cheat" by erasing objects that you don't want to be affected, perform the STRETCH operation and type OOPS which undoes the last erase operation.

    Depends on how many objects and how complex the area.

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    Hi Jaberwok, thanks for the tips.

    Just to clarify, the bullet points listed are the actions I would take in MS to answer Tom's query and I suppose the same can be done in AutoCAD though I do not know if you can you lock elements on an individual basis to stop them from being edited? The search results I've found is that you can only do it on a per layer basis.

    I also found this PDF which makes interesting reading for comparing both applications.

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    Locking on a per-entity basis is not there, and could sometimes be useful. I do occasionally use the HIDE objects function to accomplish the same goal. (little yellow lightbulb at the bottom right, tool tip says 'Isolate Objects')

    The thing with uStn and Acad is that they get to similar end results, but the language and grammar are very different - rather like French and German. Love poetry in German sounds like rhinos mating, while reading a menu aloud in French sounds like love poetry.

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    Default Re: Long Term MicroStation user learning AutoCAD 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by blothian View Post
    Hi Jaberwok, thanks for the tips.

    Just to clarify, the bullet points listed are the actions I would take in MS to answer Tom's query and I suppose the same can be done in AutoCAD though I do not know if you can you lock elements on an individual basis to stop them from being edited? The search results I've found is that you can only do it on a per layer basis.

    I also found this PDF which makes interesting reading for comparing both applications.
    Ah, I did wonder where those points came from.
    The last time I used uStn, it was the "95" version and it was new!

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