Design in Revit

[Brian Myers]

When doing Projects in Revit do you typically start with Massing and work from there? I suppose I'm asking, do you typically start with walls, etc first or do you start with Massing? If you do use Massing (since this is different from most other CAD programs where you would typically start with walls) how does this effect your design process?

Ultimately for me it feels more like sculpture where you carve out the general shape and define what it is you are looking for... I really wasn't taught to design quite like that... maybe I'm missing something?

[patagoniadave]

When doing Projects in Revit do you typically start with Massing and work from there? I suppose I'm asking, do you typically start with walls, etc first or do you start with Massing? If you do use Massing (since this is different from most other CAD programs where you would typically start with walls) how does this effect your design process?

Ultimately for me it feels more like sculpture where you carve out the general shape and define what it is you are looking for... I really wasn't taught to design quite like that... maybe I'm missing something?

I'm curious about this also. I think for optimal Reviteering I need to get my architect boss friend type person as comfortable as possible designing in Revit. Would love to hear peoples testimonials, also are there a lot of people using pen tablets or Wacom screens with Revit? Thanks all.

[greg.mcdowell]

I don't really care to start with a Massing Model (at least not normally) mainly because they and the Walls that are applied to them aren't constrainable to Levels. I find that I spend more time later fixing that than the time I might have saved using the mass in the first place. I suppose if we kept those type of changes to the mass and performed a Remake on the walls it would be okay but it seems a little unrealistic to me.

For now, until more of the office starts thinking in Revit, we import AutoCAD plan, trace over them and develop from there.

[Brian Myers]

For now, until more of the office starts thinking in Revit, we import AutoCAD plan, trace over them and develop from there.

Of course, since you trace over them, wouldn't it be just as fast to create the floor plan in Revit to begin with then just make adjustments? I would think that would be faster in most situations...

[Max Lloyd]

I have tried with massing (although I wouldn't say I fully understand the in's and out's of it) but found it far more time consuming than simply using walls & roofs.

The biggest difference was actually in doing roofs etc. The roof tool is a far quicker way to generate a shape that I want, then using the attach wall tool, tidying up the 'shape' way quicker than I could get massing to do.

Also, I think that the massing tool is better suited to doing campus style projects where there is a greater emphasis on the design relationships between buildings. Personally at the moment almost all of my jobs are single buildings so I have less of a need for it.

[greg.mcdowell]

hence the "until more of the office starts THINKING in Revit" bit... if I could just get them to stop saying "I can do it faster in AutoCAD" we might be on to something!

there's never time to do it right... but there's ALWAYS time to do it over...

[Brian Myers]

I have tried with massing (although I wouldn't say I fully understand the in's and out's of it) but found it far more time consuming than simply using walls & roofs.

That is sort of where I'm struggling. When dealing with massing you are simply playing with forms, then changing these forms into objects. Yet in Revit its fairly simple to manipulate objects (walls, etc) in most cases. That being the case, why wouldn't I just start using walls to begin with? Now I do see some advantages to using Massing, especially if I'm still playing with the shape of the building and I don't know where I'm heading. Yet in most cases I typically do have some idea whats going to occur before I start drawing and using massing seems like it would create odd situations when trying to envision the effects of exterior changes on the interior layout.

What brought this up is I was going through my Revit books and they seem to start with discussing massing before discussing walls. For me this was odd, it was the exact opposite of every other CAD/Design program I had ever used. This brought up the issue of which typically comes first, the chicken (walls) or the egg (massing)?

[Steve_Stafford]

Define design. If you are starting after programming/concept then design is sorting out plans and space relationships (oversimplyfying over course). If you are doing concept and feasibility studies, massing allows you to work out the big picture without ever touching a wall or door or room. Once you are past that then it makes more sense to use walls etc....

While not a real project, the attached is a massing model that can tell me what my floor area is at each of 45 floors and what the total floor area is which is 945Ksf. No walls, just form and fitting within the site conditions/property boundaries.

Massing is also "brilliant" to manage floor edges for such forms.

[David Haynes]

You can use massing quite effectively to do two things:
1. Like Steve says, control the square footage, use design options to play with different schemes, and understand the shape, wall and total square footage (use of schedules).
2. Drop in a AutoCAD site plan, mass the building, use other massing for adjacent buildings, add some 3D trees and create a quick and accurate exterior study (with shade and shadow) for the client in a short amount of time.

The key additional benefit, is you get the start of your SD floor plans through the use floor by face. All this combined is powerful and accurate stuff.

Finally, massing can be used for things such as:
1. Digital documentation of what the designer's real concept was.
2. Showing a outline of the maximum buildable envelope to show building/planning officials how the building fits within that 3D envelope.

[Brian Myers]

While not a real project, the attached is a massing model that can tell me what my floor area is at each of 45 floors and what the total floor area is which is 945Ksf. No walls, just form and fitting within the site conditions/property boundaries.

Massing is also "brilliant" to manage floor edges for such forms.

Great post Steve,

So it seems it could go either way depending on what you wish to design. Mind if I ask how you approach the design process? In other words, lets use this project as an example. Did you sketch it on paper then mass it out or do you do most of your "sketch" work as you develop the massing elements? Perhaps somewhere in-between?