2009 vs. 2010

[greg.gebert978266]

Does anyone know where I can find a document that explains what was changed between 2009 and 2010? I hope it wasn't just the interface?

[clog boy]

Does anyone know where I can find a document that explains what was changed between 2009 and 2010? I hope it wasn't just the interface?

This page features known issues and feature summaries (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=12828862). Courtesy Revit.com (Autodesk's shortcut to their revit page)

[dpasa]

Mainly it was the interface and the new curtain wall panels.... Some small nice features but nothing much... and of course, nothing from the users wishlist.

[greg.gebert978266]

Mainly it was the interface and the new curtain wall panels.... Some small nice features but nothing much... and of course, nothing from the users wishlist.

PERFECT! Thanks.

[ntnik]

i was reading a few posts over the last few days.....have seen a few where 2010 seems to strike users as problematic ( is it big deal or should we just jump on in?).....we're a little slow here advancing to the more recent release.....concerning that issue (our slowness) i may be on the verge of creating a mistake, so i ask.....i havet a big project we executed in 2008....i have kept it there and seem to need to continuously update it as a result of changes, requests for supplemental details, etc. Do i need to go ahead and at least updat it to 2009?......or, am i ok keeping it in 2008?

[Andrew Dobson]

There is no technical problem keeping it on 2008. There may be licensing issues if you are not on subscription that you may have to clarify with your reseller.

[greg.gebert978266]

i was reading a few posts over the last few days.....have seen a few where 2010 seems to strike users as problematic ( is it big deal or should we just jump on in?).....we're a little slow here advancing to the more recent release.....concerning that issue (our slowness) i may be on the verge of creating a mistake, so i ask.....i havet a big project we executed in 2008....i have kept it there and seem to need to continuously update it as a result of changes, requests for supplemental details, etc. Do i need to go ahead and at least updat it to 2009?......or, am i ok keeping it in 2008?


My theory is that it is best to start and finish a project in one version. I know this can be difficult since projects can go on forever. I just feel this is the safest way of doing business.

[clog boy]

My theory is that it is best to start and finish a project in one version. I know this can be difficult since projects can go on forever. I just feel this is the safest way of doing business.

Absolutely, unless a new version has new features that would be of great value to the project. And then still with great caution.

[dpasa]

Since many people talk about upgrade or not, I must say that you must go to 2010, because Ribbon UI is here to stay so you should start using it....also, Adesk is changing the cost of updating the products for those that don't want subscriptions... it is getting expensive...
Revit 2010 is not bad.... it is just far from what we wanted and expected... that's why most people, me included, complain... there are some issues with the Ribbon but generally it is a good start of Revit's future... Maybe in RAC2011 we see the new form tools improved and in family editor too...or maybe we get a really great and updated mental ray inside Revit... and all the import/export options of Rhino... and the new graphite tools of Max for freeform modeling or maybe Acad's new tools and mesh object....
OK!OK! I woke up!... no more water!

[Phil Read]

Since many people talk about upgrade or not, I must say that you must go to 2010, because Ribbon UI is here to stay so you should start using it.

While the ribbon is "here to stay", it is not "here to stay put." You should expect the ribbon to change significantly for the next few releases as it will evolve due to user feedback. So learning it now may actually provide diminished returns resulting from having to relearn many times over what you could have learned once. Additionally, the allowance of significant user customization of the ribbon will prove most disruptive from a support standpoint. We will likely lock down the ribbon - but allow customization of keyboard shortcuts.

For this reason, we will remain in 2009 for the foreseeable future (and have advised our consultants and contractors to do the same - which they have agreed to do). Once the UI juggling settles down we will then consider moving to a later release.

If there were a "Classic" option we could have moved forward with this release - as well as beta tested the ribbon and provided more extensive feedback. Unfortunately this was not the case.

-Phil

[funkman]

Well I have played around with 2010 for a week now. I have emailed "autodeskcares" and received a brief response from Nicolas Mangon from his blackberry...apparently he was unaware of the loss of functionality with the new ribbon.

But that is ok, as he says "we are committed to better incorporate the augi wish list in the planning cycle and you will hear from us soon"....:roll:


2010: bearing in mind the UI has changed so much without any useful added functionality but a loss, what is the point of going to the new release? We "upgraded" (if that is what you call it), got frustrated, lost time and money. So we are rolling back.

If revit can give me a new release with new features, not just a pointless prettying up with loss of functionality then I will probably change, but it is 2009 for us. What a waste.

[Scott D Davis]

Taking off the Autodesk hat...this is from Scott, the Revit user in production in a firm from Revit 1.0 to Revit 2008.

From Revit 1.0 to Revit 2009, the UI was in a constant state of evolution. Consistent, but evolving. New tools were added to the tool bars and Design Bar. In Revit 1.0, we used the Railing tool to create curtain walls. Somewhere along the way, the stair/railing tools were redone and more options were added to the dialog boxes. In Revit 5.0 (if i remember?) we got worksets and more buttons and tools. The Room and Area Tab was added to the Design Bar somewhere along the way. Icons have been continually updated and refined since the beginning. Look at screen shots from Revit 1.0...looks really different. Revit 1.0 and 2.0 didn't have keyboard shortcuts. This is only a sample of things that I can remember while typing this, and I know there is a large amount of other things I haven't mentioned.

Point is, its always evolved, and will always contnue to evolve. One "style" of UI until 2010, and now a new style. Expect that it will change...it always has. Has it kept you from upgrading in the past?

[iankids]

Taking off the Autodesk hat...this is from Scott, the Revit user in production in a firm from Revit 1.0 to Revit 2008.

From Revit 1.0 to Revit 2009, the UI was in a constant state of evolution. Consistent, but evolving. New tools were added to the tool bars and Design Bar. In Revit 1.0, we used the Railing tool to create curtain walls. Somewhere along the way, the stair/railing tools were redone and more options were added to the dialog boxes. In Revit 5.0 (if i remember?) we got worksets and more buttons and tools. The Room and Area Tab was added to the Design Bar somewhere along the way. Icons have been continually updated and refined since the beginning. Look at screen shots from Revit 1.0...looks really different. Revit 1.0 and 2.0 didn't have keyboard shortcuts. This is only a sample of things that I can remember while typing this, and I know there is a large amount of other things I haven't mentioned.

Point is, its always evolved, and will always contnue to evolve. One "style" of UI until 2010, and now a new style. Expect that it will change...it always has. Has it kept you from upgrading in the past?

Hi Scott,

I haven't been around Revit as long as you, however it would seem to me that the issue with 2010 is not the change per se, but rather that the new interface makes us slower at what we do and in the view of many, many experienced users (Wes, Aaron, Phil & countless others), the new UI is poorly thought out and poorly delivered.

When looking through the the items you list above, every single one of them has improved the functionality of Revit and therefore improved the efficiency of the users of the software to create designs and documentation for our clients.

I am sure that you have read the very long posts in the Revit- Out there forum, but if by chance you have missed them.

Wes's later comments in the first thread listed below are, I think telling.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=99307
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=99690

Unfortunately, due to the instability problems I and many other are having with 2010, I will not upgrade any paying work until the mess is cleaned up.

Cheers,

Ian

[Phil Read]

Per Scott's reflection - railings as curtain wall rocked. They could contain areas and you could unpin balusters as exceptions. Wish railings could do that! :)

[BWG]

[QUOTE=

If there we a "Classic" option we could have moved forward with this release - as well as beta tested the ribbon and provided more extensive feedback. Unfortunately this was not the case.

-Phil[/QUOTE]


Yep, the "Classic" option would have been most beneficial. Everything is scattered and hidden now. Very clumsy.

[funkman]

Point is, its always evolved, and will always contnue to evolve. One "style" of UI until 2010, and now a new style. Expect that it will change...it always has. Has it kept you from upgrading in the past?

Scott, I think you missed and (all of?) ADSK are missing the point - it is that the change (evolution) in this instance is for the worse, not better. It is not that the UI has changed and it was never about that. We are using this programme and for us to stay in business the decision rests with me as to upgrade or not.

The ribbon as it stands precludes 2010 from being rolled out until it is rectified and streamlined so that we can work faster than 2009, not slower.

Going backwards is not an upgrade and is not an option.

[Chad Smith]

Has it kept you from upgrading in the past?
No release up until 2010 has ever decreased productivity like 2010 does.

In the past, no there hasn't been any reason to not upgrade. But now, with 2010, yes there is.

[dpasa]

Even if the UI keeps changing, from now on, it will be a Ribbon UI... So, we have to deal with this... I am not very busy these days so I will try to have a look at the new modeling tools too...
But I have to say that I believe they can't be compared to what ACAD2010 got with the new mesh object or MAX2010 with the new Graphite tools...
I have both and believe me although I know very little about modeling, I can do my job very easily...

Actually, it is a waste of time to start learning new things for no reason... There are SubD modelers, NURBS modelers, other that have both... Revit is something else... not more productive, not easier, not more powerful, no nothing... Just different... why? If Adesk can't make a complete modeler inside Revit then who would?
There had to be years to have a semi-decent dimensioning tool, and still, sometimes we have to use detail lines to place our dimension...
We had to wait years to get a decent renderer which is not something new for Adesk but still, it can't be compared to any other modern renderer, not even to the same mental ray in Max...

It is sad to see that even with a given wishlist from the users, which have to pay every year, they did exactly the opposite... We all know that Revit had UI problems but what exactly did you fix? Not just changed... fixed! Nothing... To be able to resize one dialog, and not able to resize the second and not able to move the first is stupid!... It is an app working in Vista, where everything can be moved and resized and minimized etc... and it costs 4000$ not 200$ !!!
Well, I think that I repeat myself through all these posts so I will end with this...
All we can do is hoping for a better (not good enough though) RAC2011.

[STHRevit]

It's interesting with the newest release of Revit, I too was skeptical with the lack
of features and the ribbon ui. Having said that, 2010 was released on 16th, some 12 days ago and I have been tinkering with new new product. I must say,that it has not been a huge issue. the UI is actually quite easy to learn and did not have a noticable effect in productivity. It took me and my staff around 4 days to become familiar with it and back to the level we were working previously.

It seems that most of the negative comments are coming from people who have not upgraded yet. So if you have not upgraded and used the product, how do you know how good or bad it will be?

Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot of features that could / should have been improved / fixed and can oly hope that in the next release they will be but then again have Autodesk ever said that the wish list items will be incorporated into upgrades or do we just assume that because we have them, they will include them?

I actually like the fact that this release is mainly cosmetic, so when the new features really get rolled out, we won't have as much to learn. If you want to see a drop in productivity, wait until the next release when you will have to cope with the new Ui and new features (assuming they are added).

Unfortunately, it is not an option to look elsewhere for other software packages, due to time and implimentation costs, and Autodesk know this, however a time will come for change to new software if the upgrades aren't more significant.

Anyway, just my opinion.

[aaronrumple]

It seems that most of the negative comments are coming from people who have not upgraded yet. So if you have not upgraded and used the product, how do you know how good or bad it will be?

My comments are based on my day-to-day use of an installed product. I'm less productive now. This is just a very bad poorly planned UI design.

[dpasa]

It's interesting with the newest release of Revit, I too was skeptical with the lack
of features and the ribbon ui. Having said that, 2010 was released on 16th, some 12 days ago and I have been tinkering with new new product. I must say,that it has not been a huge issue. the UI is actually quite easy to learn and did not have a noticable effect in productivity. It took me and my staff around 4 days to become familiar with it and back to the level we were working previously.

It seems that most of the negative comments are coming from people who have not upgraded yet. So if you have not upgraded and used the product, how do you know how good or bad it will be?

Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot of features that could / should have been improved / fixed and can oly hope that in the next release they will be but then again have Autodesk ever said that the wish list items will be incorporated into upgrades or do we just assume that because we have them, they will include them?

I actually like the fact that this release is mainly cosmetic, so when the new features really get rolled out, we won't have as much to learn. If you want to see a drop in productivity, wait until the next release when you will have to cope with the new Ui and new features (assuming they are added).



1. I have already upgraded and tried the new UI which I don't find difficult to use, it is a bit slow and maybe some tools should be in 2-3 places... But generally I have no problem with the new UI... My problem is that it is the main new feature (except the panels).

2. Autodesk keeps upgrading Revit because it brings money... money from happy users... so if users are not happy because they can't do the work as they want or should... then Adesk won't get the money... The fact that they don't clearly accept the obligation to include the wishlist to their development plan is not important...

3. Not to disappoint you but if Adesk will not add 20-30 new tools now that the new UI is ready... they will keep on improving the UI and they will add 1-2 new tools... maybe a small improvement to the renderer.... You know, Max 2010 got a Ribbon UI too but they didn't even bother to advertise it because this new UI was for 100 new modeling tools, so they were ok advertising the tools and not the UI... With Revit, there were only 1-2 new features so they had to add the new UI as a major improvement...

[azmz3]

The fact that they don't clearly accept the obligation to include the wishlist to their development plan is not important...


I dont believe Autodesk has any obligation to include the wishlist in the further development of Revit. the name says it all, Wishlist. We cant expect Autodesk to include all wishlist items in every release, that would be to much. it seems like on the AUGI forum people think they have an entitlement to expect that the wishes be included on the release, and that is not the case. If it were, everyone on here would have been a beta tester, and everyone would have had their opinion and wishlist item taken into consideration.

The UI change was part of the overall redevelopment of Revit to suit future needs. Since the old UI had been used for many years previous, and was based on older technology. Autodesk is trying to bring Revit up to par, technically with AutoCAD, and this is part of the process, just like going away from OpenGL to DirectX.

Yes, the ribbon takes time to learn, but that doesnt mean that people cant/wont learn it, and still be productive. Has anyone gone from CAD to Revit, and had to unlearn CAD to learn Revit? That was a process that a took a bit to get used to, this is along those same lines, but not as big of a task, since this is still Revit.

[rhys]

My comments are based on my day-to-day use of an installed product. I'm less productive now. This is just a very bad poorly planned UI design.
Me too - I'm even taking a project started in 2010 and re-modeling it in 2009.
The whole release is a disgrace.

[Baldwin_4-6-0]

http://www.nichitecture.com/downloads/Where%20is%20my%20command%20in%20Revit%20Architecture%202010.html

The link included is a tool to get used to the new UI.

[muttlieb]

It seems that most of the negative comments are coming from people who have not upgraded yet. So if you have not upgraded and used the product, how do you know how good or bad it will be?
I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but I see a lot of criticism of the new UI from very experienced, long time Revit users that have actually used 2010. I've used it on a couple of real projects over the course of several weeks (since beta), but it took me less than an hour to determine that the new UI would make me less productive. And it has nothing to do with learning the new UI. That is why I won't be downgrading to 2010.

[Chad Smith]

It seems that most of the negative comments are coming from people who have not upgraded yet.
Given that a lot of the negative comments are accompanied by why the user doesn't like it, and ways that the user would like to see it improved, suggests that the users have used 2010. So I don't know where you are getting your comment from?

[STHRevit]

Ok, fair enough, an exageration on my behalf.
What i was trying to highlight is that the software has been out for just over a week, unless you were a beta tester, and from day one, people were complaining on how hard it would be to use the new UI and productivity would drop.
Seriously, it's like anything, the more you use it, the easier it will become and the more procficient you will become.
I was simply expressing my opionion that it may be a little too early to call.

[Gadget Man]

I dont believe Autodesk has any obligation to include the wishlist in the further development of Revit. the name says it all, Wishlist. We cant expect Autodesk to include all wishlist items in every release, that would be to much...

The whole point is that it is not us - the users - who should please AutoDesk for the honour of being allowed to pay A$1,300 in yearly subscription. It's the other way around...

Without us - the users - AutoDesk wouldn't even exist. It is us - the users - who pay for their wages and wellbeing. And we pay dearly...

So, IMHO it is not something outrageous that we - the users - expect AutoDesk to consider our WISHES. Yes, wishes.

Look at this from that side: by telling AutoDesk what we expect from Revit we make them a favour! They have a very valuable feedback, they have their market research done for them for free. They know PRECISELY what their customers WANT.

What they need to do now to make a PERFECT software (and many very happy and loyal clients at the same time) is to listen and IMPLEMENT some of these wishes - hell, they don't even need to think/guess about what to include in the next release! They are told! But sadly, they IGNORE it...

[dpasa]

Even if we agree that the welcoming of the new UI was not the best and maybe we all complain because we don't like changes, you have to admit that the it is unacceptable to see that this UI which is not even working as it should, was the best they could do for one year's work...
If you still don't understand what I mean, check the new features workshop of Max2010 and Acad2010 or any other new features overview video from their site... You will see the difference...
I don't even mention panels because it is something really nice but not important for the majority of the users and they are completely connected to the new modeling tools of Revit which seem very strange... I will never understand why Revit has to be so different since it does nothing better than Max or Acad (I mean for modeling)...
Also, it was very dissapointing to see that these modeling tools exist only for mass modeling and not in the family editor... I can't accept that they couldn't do better than this!

[aaronrumple]

... day one, people were complaining on how hard it would be to use the new UI and productivity would drop.
.

Can you count to 5? Seriously. There have been numerous examples where tasks that were a couple of clicks in 2009 is now many more clicks. That is a loss of productivity based on simple fact - not feelings, beliefs or mysticism. Just science.

[Joef]

There are many, many tools that previously sat on the toolbar ready to use at any moment that are now hidden and require activating a ribbon panel. Why? If a tool was useful enough that it was in view all the time why is it now hidden?
The answer is because they are using the wrong interface.The ribbon was designed for a word processing program and is not suited for a complicated graphical program such as Revit. It is an insult to Revit users that they are going ahead with this Ribbon knowing full well that it is going to waste time for everyone who uses it. Autodesk cares more about selling new seats than creating a productive interface.

[mmiles]

After spending the last 7 days getting used to the new massing tools, and UI - a process that actually hurt more than I had hope - I needed to perform my 1st change order on a project that is about to go underconstruction. the project was started in RAC2008 upgraded to RAC2009, and I think that is where I will keep it.

However, once I started drawing some lines (RAC2009) in a couple of design options I set up for the change order, I realized that I had already gotten adjusted to the new UI. I stopped myself short of wishing I was using the new UI. In my case, I noticed that I became irritated at not being able to see all the line type options (circle, arc, etc) all at once. I also had drawn some 2D shapes that I wished I could select and turn into a Form (solid) like in the new massing family editor.

whiIe I feel there are many tasks that require me to press more buttons in the new version, this was one case where I fel the new UI was better. I also realized that until 2010 I really did not use the "menu" bar much in the previous versions. The new UI requires it- and it is taking some time to get used to.

[Doug]

Well... I have been playing around with 10 for a week now... I never had a problem with the old GUI... The new one is a pain... I agree with Aaron... lots of extra click to do the same process...

The release is costing time and we know TIMER is $$$$. Hope Autodesk comes out with a mid year release with an IMPROVED GUI. (anyone remember the mid-year release of the old daqys before Autodesk?)

[jlinger]

What gets me is that the old UI was basically a ribbon interface, albeit vertically. And quite honestly, better designed than the new one. Change for the sake of change isn't a good enough reason. I could understand it if they had restructured the old ribbon tabs in order to create a slightly different tab structure for new tool developments. It would have hurt for a day or two getting to know the new organization, but it wouldn't have been a complete disruption of the Revit workflow. Revit is not AutoCAD. It doesn't function like AutoCAD. There is no need for it to look like AutoCAD. Let Revit be Revit.

[David Harrington]

As has been stated here, the ribbon is here and while some will avoid it, others will try to make the best of it. For me, making the decision on what platform to use is typically driven by the design team and usually the lowest common denominator wins. He who has the oldest usually forces others 'down'.

If I have zero 'outsider' issues then I look at the project. Is if already into CD's? If so, leave it there. There just won't be any new feature that will any difference at this point.

If the project is in SD/DD, then I will probably move forward as to get a chance to internally beta test the software along with custom families and such.

[Joef]

I will use 2010 but it is extremely irritating to know that my time is being wasted because Autodesk marketing is in charge of Revit. They want to make the transition easier between products but they don't even maintain that logic between AutoCAD and Revit.
Look at how you switch between open files in AutoCAD and Revit. With Revit you have to switch to a different ribbon. This is just plain old stupid. This should be a persisitent icon because there is no one activity that relates to this. You should be able to switch windows from anywhere. That is what they do in AutoCAD.There is a persistent non modal icon that is at the bottom of the screen for switching between open files. Why the difference? Why is it perceived by the UI designers that switching between open apps in Revit requires a ribbon activiation but AutoCAD does not? What this means to me is that the designers are not seriously interested in users who switch between apps, but rather are concerned only with the cosmetics of the interface.

[sultarc]

User interface(ribbon) notwithstanding, am I the only one who saw the post saying that the entire program was re-written? I don't know if it was true or not, but I hardly think that it would have been posted if it were untrue. Supposedly, it was done to make the program more scalable later.

I had a call from Autodesk last week asking about the program and I gave them an earfull. I don't know how the community at large feels though. The people who post here are but a small fraction of the actual users. It's funny when I talk to other users, they are unaware of The Augi Forums.

I myself don't exactly know how to react, but i'm not outraged to say the least. More like dissappointed. My other users here just shrugged when they tested the UI.

[Bill McLees]

It's unlikely that Autodesk would rewrite the entire Revit program and not claim credit for it. And as has been stated before, why would they have rewritten the entire program and not fixed the hated elevation symbol?

Since Autodesk bought Revit, the main effort has been to create Revit Structure and Revit MEP (and to use the subscription money of we architects to pay for the new products). At the same time, we architects don't get to use the tools we paid for (slanted columns and all the rest).

The sole major improvement in the past three years has been the inclusion last year of mental ray as the rendering engine. And last year, there were many concerns about that -- mainly related to the lack of material libraries. We were more or less assured that improvements would come. And of course, no changes were made in 2010.

In addition, no changes were made to stair tools, text tools, railing tools, site tools, ceiling tools, and on and on.

For me, discontent with the ribbon is a minor issue compared to discontent with 2010 overall. When little is offered, that which is offered better be great, and the Ribbon UI fails in that role.

Even if 2011 is the best release that I can imagine, Revit is years behind what it could be.

So far on Wes Macaulay's poll, there are 49 members satisfied with Revit 2010 and 98 dissatisfied. Autodesk is fortunate that one-third of AUGI users have much lower expectations than the rest.

Regards, Bill

[sjsl]

A slight change was made to the Text tool. It's actually worse than in 09.

When you place a note with a leader arrow you no longer have precise placement like in 09. You have a typical Mircosoft text cursor. When did Revit become a word processor?
We are trying to design and document a building not write a novel.

This needs to be put back the way it was with precise placement of leader lines to objects.

Try it you won't like it.

[Joef]

The other giant step back in text handling is that you can no longer use alt +XXX to insert symbols in text.

[sultarc]

I'm sure I read in a post by Nicolas Mangon a portion of which was just posted in Out There stated a re-write was done.

[Joef]

I'm sure I read in a post by Nicolas Mangon a portion of which was just posted in Out There stated a re-write was done.

It is a rumour till someone actually provides a link to a real quote. Hasn't happened yet. Still a rumour.

[trombe]

I'm sure I read in a post by Nicolas Mangon a portion of which was just posted in Out There stated a re-write was done.

Hi,

in case you have not read the full text:

http://insidethefactory.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/04/a-message-from-the-autodesk-building-industry-director-about-the-revit-2010-release.html

You will note that there is no claim to a major re-write even if it is considered by some, that this was the case in part, or in whole.

trombe

[Brian Myers]

They have done a rather major re-write, but I believe it's just on the UI and not the entire program. :beer:

[STHRevit]

Can you count to 5? Seriously. There have been numerous examples where tasks that were a couple of clicks in 2009 is now many more clicks. That is a loss of productivity based on simple fact - not feelings, beliefs or mysticism. Just science.

1,2,3,4,5....Yep, seems that i can. Whew! (perhaps i was just lucky that they are all in a row on top of the keyboard)
So i am curious, commands that took "a couple" of clicks now take how many clicks? 3, 4, 5, 6.

Sure it is going to slow you down initially, but the more you use it, the faster you will get and while not recovering the entire amount of "time clicking" you will certainly become more productive over time, like most things.
That too is a simple fact.
Perhaps the location of other tools may balance out the extra time of addittional clicks?

I guess I tend to focus my time on more important things than amount of clicks per command or per day.

[nwmcdonough]

What I don't understand is why Autodesk thinks everyone who works on CAD or Revit is some type of expert at the program or has the support of an expert to help them with a problem. This is rarely true, and relying on an outside consultant to answer simple question about were a tool is or a simple procedure that has changed is silly. The beauty to Revit was the overall layout wasn't going to change, I could start working in any new release and be comfortable with it. Now Autodesk has decided this shouldn't be true. It now requires me spending a couple of days learning all this over again. Only people who are not working on an actual project have time for these things.

I think if enough people are upset about the program they should form a boycott of the next release of the program. If they get at least 50% of Autodesk Revit users not to update there subscription next year it can make a major dent in there earnings. This will force them to realize that they need to listen to the software users.

Also on a side note: were did the Align, Move, Rotate and Mirror tools go and how come with the Mirror I don't have a choice whether to mirror off an existing line or have the ability to draw a line to mirror with. The loss of that simple tool made me look stupid in front of my boss. Thanks Autodesk for making me look bad. Thank you very much.

[azmz3]

There was a post in the Out-There Forum, stating that they are in the process of a re-write of the program, and that the DirectX support was the beginning of that. I think it was by Anthony Hauck actually, and it was in response to a post regarding multi-threading support in the program. He did say they are in the process of re-writing the overall Revit platform, and it was not just related to the UI, but that is the biggest part that people see.

[STHRevit]

Try this link.

http://www.nichitecture.com/downloads/Where%20is%20my%20command%20in%20Revit%20Architecture%202010.html

It should open a window that will look like the old 2009 UI.
Click on a command and it wil show you where it is in the new Ribbon UI

Hope this helps

[aaronrumple]

1,2,3,4,5....Yep, seems that i can. Whew! (perhaps i was just lucky that they are all in a row on top of the keyboard)
So i am curious, commands that took "a couple" of clicks now take how many clicks? 3, 4, 5, 6.

Sure it is going to slow you down initially, but the more you use it, the faster you will get and while not recovering the entire amount of "time clicking" you will certainly become more productive over time, like most things.
That too is a simple fact.
Perhaps the location of other tools may balance out the extra time of addittional clicks?

I guess I tend to focus my time on more important things than amount of clicks per command or per day.

You'll see I and many others have documented numerous increases in mouse clicks. In many cases 2 1/2 time to 5 time. Yes. Additional clicks do slow you down. In addition mouse mileage is up. Looking for icons which keep changing location also slows production. Since you spend more time going from one tab to another - it is much slower.

Prove where the new UI actual saves time. No one has done that yet. No fact to this effect has been established. Please document. Until that is done it isn't a simlpe fact.

[jlinger]

=Also on a side note: were did the Align, Move, Rotate and Mirror tools go and how come with the Mirror I don't have a choice whether to mirror off an existing line or have the ability to draw a line to mirror with. The loss of that simple tool made me look stupid in front of my boss. Thanks Autodesk for making me look bad. Thank you very much.

Those tools only show up after you select an object. And the Mirror option is still there, you just have to select which version you want from the dropdown arrow next to the tool icon. Which was a terrible idea on their part.

[STHRevit]

You'll see I and many others have documented numerous increases in mouse clicks. In many cases 2 1/2 time to 5 time. Yes. Additional clicks do slow you down. In addition mouse mileage is up. Looking for icons which keep changing location also slows production. Since you spend more time going from one tab to another - it is much slower.

Prove where the new UI actual saves time. No one has done that yet. No fact to this effect has been established. Please document. Until that is done it isn't a simlpe fact.


I think you have misunderstood my point, I don't think i ever said that the new UI would be faster than the old one, i simply said that with time, using the new UI, you will become faster. It was never a comparison between the old UI and new UI

I have certainly never said that the Ribbons would "save time" thats what the QAT and keyboard shortcuts are for.

Sure when you need to find a tool for the first time it will be a bit longer, but as you use it more often you will get quicker becaiuse you become familiar with the layout.

Are you taking as long today to find items on the ribbon as your were on day 1 using the ribbon?
I wouldn't think so, ergo you are more productive today than you were when using the new UI for the first time and funnily enough, quicker.

Fact

[aaronrumple]

I think you have misunderstood my point, I don't think i ever said that the new UI would be faster than the old one, i simply said that with time, using the new UI, you will become faster. It was never a comparison between the old UI and new UI

That is the whole point as this thread is 2009 vs. 2010. So - sure I'll concede that you get faster over time using 2010. But that's not the point. Unless you are as productive with 2010 as 2009, you've taken a financial hit switching to 2010. 2010 by design is slower.

If you're going to peg all productivity increase to the QAT and shortcut keys then what's the point of the ribbon? It was touted as being better. I can't get all the stuff on the QAT that I want. (Basically everything so I can ignore the ribbon.) A bunch of my favorite keybord shortcuts no longer work. They removed the option to even add them in. Those "new" items they have provided keyboards shortcuts for - I really didn't need that much. All in all a net loss.

[Bill McLees]

I have searched all posts by Anthony Hauck on AUGI (as far as I know) and find nothing suggesting a complete re-write of the Revit program. Those of you who "know" this has happened, please give us a link so we can read what was done.

If the program was re-written, why was so much left "as is"?

Bill

[iankids]

That is the whole point as this thread is 2009 vs. 2010. So - sure I'll concede that you get faster over time using 2010. But that's not the point. Unless you are as productive with 2010 as 2009, you've taken a financial hit switching to 2010. 2010 by design is slower.

If you're going to peg all productivity increase to the QAT and shortcut keys then what's the point of the ribbon? It was touted as being better. I can't get all the stuff on the QAT that I want. (Basically everything so I can ignore the ribbon.) A bunch of my favorite keybord shortcuts no longer work. They removed the option to even add them in. Those "new" items they have provided keyboards shortcuts for - I really didn't need that much. All in all a net loss.

I am with Aaron on this one. No matter how quick I become using the new UI I do not believe that I will be quicker or more efficient in producing drawings than I am under the current UI. I, like probably everyone else here will end up adopting it as I really don't have a choice in the matter, (apart from not using Revit - which is not really a choice anyway).
At this point in time, it is very unlikely that I will change to 2010 unless the mid year Web Update addresses some of the substantive problems with the UI.

Cheers,

Ian

[funkman]

2 scenarios, the story of which starts a a year or so ago. I spoke to several engineering firms at this time to try to convince them to switch to Revit to streamline projects we were working on.

Scenario 1:
I convinced a good sized engineering firm to switch over to Revit from autocad. They switched around 6 months ago. They now have many licences for Revit and are commencing new projects in Revit Structure. I have now told them we will not switching to Reviti 2010 and all work with us is to be in 2009.

Scenario 2:
Another company I originally spoke to year or so ago are now looking at switching over to Revit. I told them the new UI is flawed and we are not using it, preferring 2009 as it is more productive. As a result we cannot recommend 2010 but in fact we told them to steer away from the latest version. They weren't too impressed with this as it is a subscription based product and they are now looking at alternative programs.

[clay_hickling]

A slight change was made to the Text tool. It's actually worse than in 09.

When you place a note with a leader arrow you no longer have precise placement like in 09. You have a typical Mircosoft text cursor. When did Revit become a word processor?
We are trying to design and document a building not write a novel.

This needs to be put back the way it was with precise placement of leader lines to objects.

Try it you won't like it.

yes, now i see what you mean. In fact try and add text next to another peice of text but in the same horiz alignment. good luck, revit even gives you the token sanp line saying its horizontally aligned but does not then put the text in that spot.

hmmm...well it wasn't working 5 secs ago...