4d simulation

[diesellam]

Has anybody successfully done a 4d simulation with NavisWorks and Revit?

Is it true that you have to use some kind of project management software like "primavera" in order to link the model to the tasks and phases?

It seems like there's not much tutorails regarding this matter?

I'm very interested to know what's the typical workflow to do a 4d simulation to keep track of the schedule and the job phases sequencing.

Thanks in advance

[mitch.cornelius]

I always hate replies like mine, but no, I haven't done it thoroughly. We use a program called Synchro for 4D. The last time I did a 4D simulation with Navisworks was a couple years ago and the best workflows were Microsoft Project or Primavera SureTrak (not P3/P6). You don't have to use the PM software to do the simulation. You can re-create the schedule yourself in NavisWorks, but that isn't an enjoyable or effective experience.

[navisworks]

There have been several threads reguarding this over the past 6 months or so.

I havent had the need reciently, and so havent tried the methods described in the aforementioned threads.

A year ago (in V5.5), I achieved a walkthrough containing moving parts in a very time consuming way.

I was required to show a moving ship. I copied the nwc file several times, then appended that to the nwf. Then I colored all of them, then hid them, went to global options and turned on 'save hide required attributes'. Then I started making the animation. By unhiding one instance of the moving part at a time. The other nwc's were previously given an incremental file translation which is the basis of the movement.
For eg. 01.nwc would be the starting position, then 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, etc
I create a folder in the animation window, then create a blank animation within that animation. then create short animations within those.

I save the first viewpoint, second etc - that takes care of the moving through the model.

Then I stop, and go through a process of hiding all but one translated copy of the nwc.

The bug is that files cannot be shown/hidden any faster than 1 frame per second.

[diesellam]

Thanks for the comments.

So in your opinion, which softwares should be used in order to create the least painful way 4d simulation? (I think if I have to re-create the schedule in Navis, that doesn't seem to be the feasible way if any other PM software can directly link the model into it.)

Thanks in advance.

[mitch.cornelius]

NavisWorks is great for simply putting together simulations. If you want more than that (an actual scheduling tool) I'd look elsewhere. I would first find out what format your schedule is going to be (Primavera, Project, Asta, etc) and then decide if NavisWorks willl work for you. There is a "Using Timeliner" section within the NavisWorks manage help file. Look there first.

[diesellam]

Will do. Thanks for the info once again.

[carty_girl]

YES ITS POSSIBLE
for the past month i've been investigating 4d and 5d simulation and have achieved several simulations
yes you need to link to a software like primavera
and increase the data input in the revit to appear in the element Ids
its a little complicated workflow but doable
please find attached file of a complete project with time liner

[diesellam]

Thanks for your response.

Which file format is that? Is it 2010?

So in your opinion, the Primavera works better than MS Project?

Do you have something like a "step by step" kind of instruction to show us how did you achieve what you did?

Thanks in advance.

[Tyveka]

carty_girl,
could you save that as an NWD? the NWF is trying to reference NWC files that weren't included with the zip.

thanks!

[carty_girl]

Hey glad to be of some help
1-In terms of linking files from primavera or MS project they are the same to me it doesn’t seem to be of a problem
2-the file format is NWF 2009.1
3- i couldn't attach the NWC original file extracted from Revit they are huge
4- These are the steps to create a 4d and 5d simulation: ( Please be patient)
• In Revit add all data concerning the elements (Identity Data), and use the shared parameters to add new parameters ex: -Planned cost. –unit cost - actual cost
All the data I need to be shown in the element properties in Navis works.
• Extract the NWC file into Navis Work.
• In the Element properties you’ll find all the data input from Revit including the cost.
• To create a time liner simulation
• First you either create selection sets or import selection sets as xml files
• After creating selection sets attach elements to sets. P.S. If you import sets then elements are automatically attached to them.
• Create project time schedule in Primavera or MS project
• Then open time liner----- link Tab -------right click ADD link
•
• Browse the primavera or MS project file then press OK.
• A dialogue box occurs –to add the cost field created in Primavera or MS project or any other fields---on the right hand column(external fields)Infront of user 1 click on the draw down menu and choose the field you have created ex: cost and so on infront of user2 and user 3 ….ect. until you have chosen all fields you want to import to Navis.
•
• After pressing ok the link is shown in the link tab
• Right click and choose rebuild task hierarchy from link
•
• To attach elements to new tasks in the rules tab check the box of the second rule then press apply. You’ll find that the elements are attached to tasks
•
P.S. mind that in order to automatically attach elements to tasks this way the names of the selection sets must be identical to task names in primavera or MS project.
• In the tasks tab choose the task type from the draw down menu ex: construct.
• Right click on any column head in the task tab and choose add column then select the names of columns you have selected earlier to match the cost field in the external file ex: user 1.
•
• The tasks costs are displayed
• Now we are ready to begin our simulation
• In the simulation tab------ settings----- animation-------saved viewpoint animation to link an animation created earlier to the Timeliner simulation
•
• Press play and you’ll see the time liner simulation
• To export Timeliner data in Navis 2010 you can export it as a Timeliner CSV export
If anyone needs any more help I’ll be glad to do it
And some standard selection sets

[diesellam]

Thanks. It's very informative. I would give it a try.
This is very useful.

[sramdass]

carty_girl

Thanks for the information, very useful. I have used Navisworks for 4D Simulation using Primavera and MS Project. I used to create my selection sets and then ensure that the tasks that I import have the same name as the selection sets. Then I would run the rules. I used to go through the model and select objects and create my own selection sets.

So what I am not clear about how to automatically link Selection Sets to the Elements in Navisworks. "If you import sets then elements are automatically attached to them." I imported the xml sets that you provided. I was able to see them in my selection sets. But they are not automatically attached? What am I missing?

[carty_girl]

First of all David Kingham provided me with those selection sets so you ought to thank him he is very helpfull
Second elements are supposed to attach automatically to the selection set but they have to have the same name
If you changed the names of the elements then they won't attach automatically
But you don't have to go around the model selecting elements individually you can create a find search to attach them to the sets
cheers

[marudhu@revit.com]

In navis we cant compare actual vs planned in two window,,,thats actually worth full in construction.