Revit worksets, Microsoft Briefcases, and the Boss...

[hand471037]

OK, so my boss uses a laptop, and relies heavily upon the Briefcase functions within Windows to take work home with him and make certain he's got the latest version of everything.

However, this doesn't jive with Worksets. If he puts the project in a briefcase, it thinks it's the central file when he opens it at home, and it complains and demands to be re-saved as a new central file, which kinda defeats the whole purpose.

If he creates a local file but wants it in the briefcase he's got to have it on the network. So if he does that, and then takes it home and works on it, when he gets back into the office and checks the briefcase back in it will just copy that file back to the network; he still has to open the file and publish the changes back to the server. Which again defeats the whole purpose.

He could create a local file on his desktop to take work home, but sometimes he leaves the office for a day or more, and we're still here working away on the file. He won't be able to check the work back in remotely very often, if at all, and we'll be locked out of those worksets until he does.

So what I'd like to know is how can I get it so that he can simply put something into his briefcase, take it home, work on it, review it, and then check the briefcase back in when he returns... but yet still use worksets. ;)

[GuyR]

Highspeed network and VPN ?

[hand471037]

I donno... we're on a T-1 here, which rocks. We have a VPN too, of sorts, so I guess we can give this a try. But I just heard from others that gave this a try that saving to central via VPN could take forever and cause problems. This has to work, simply work, and work smoothly. Not using Worksets until he doesn't need access to the file anymore seems like our best option, but now that everyone here understands that worksets can be used for a lot more than just allowing for multipule people to work on the project everyone wants to use them right out of the gate ;)

[GuyR]

It seems to me this is an issue for external consultants as well.

You need to be able to save a local version that has only access to designated worksets. All others are ignored. And back in the office those designated worksets are checked out until you get an update from the consultant.

And the option of a readonly version as well.

Does he make changes to the model or is he just viewing the model? If he's just viewing why not do a save as, create a new central in his briefcase. Do this each time he wants to checkout a version.

[PeterJ]

I am using a thirty meg file remote from someone's office and we are tending to just cede responsibility of it for a day or so at a time to the other people and let them play with it then have them relinquish everything so that I can work on it. That is okay while it's two or even three of us and we are not working simultaneously but it won't work for much longer.

With stock ADSL we have a 512kbs downstream and a 256 upstream and save to central is a once a day, once every other day task right now, while fresh coffee is brewed, a cigarette smoked, the lawn mown, a quick check back to the desk and then the copier refilled with paper, drycleaning collected etc....Its tedious to say the least but for our general needs leased lines and so on are too expensive to consider. I think the workset tools will improve over time to a point where there is better control of what gets saved/moved around but that is some way off.

I heard a desciption by Marty Rozmanith of the workset concept as being a peer to peer network idea and not a client/server arrangement, so in its current form there will always be an issue here.

Your boss can save work to a USB pen/keyring drive to make his portability issue less of a problem and for review purposes he could work with a duplicate of the model linked into a local copy of the real file with the only workset available to him being "Boss's notes". When he checked that workset back in you would all get an update on his thoughts but he couldn't work on the geometry. He could play with the geometry of the duplicate model and then you could work through the interference where he had moved things in his duplicate and the Central, but its tedious and overkill of labour.

No good answer seems to exist right now.

[hand471037]

Problem is that he does want to be able to make changes sometimes. When it's pure review, we do that via PDF, which he marks up and e-mails back. That works swell.

And Guy, I agree; I have no idea how the Revit Factory will pull it off, but to be able to have some kind of intelligant linking/workset thing, that allows for one to dole out access to third parties and also to work remotely easier...

[Steve_Stafford]

Jeffrey,

Unless this mobile user can check back in worksets each time he does work you know full well you are asking for STC resolution conflicts.

If I do work at home I log into our VPN, connect to my office PC and download my local file. I then disconnect from the VPN (important because Revit will try to resolve the connection to the central), open the local and it complains about not finding the central file and I ignore it. When I'm done I log on to our VPN and upload the local file to my PC at the office. (on these nights I restart my office PC, turn off the monitor and leave) Then using Remote Desktop I open Revit, the local file and do a STC. This is just as fast as doing it at the office except for the lag in time to see things happen at home (not bad at all usually).

Now this is fine unless you have others doing work remotely too. If I check out a workset and you do and so does he...when we all return (STC) we are bound to bump into each others efforts unless the project is so well divided that we can each function safely independantly.

So...if you have a remote user working from home I think you could map out a strategy that would work pretty well. A hotel based user is probably not going to work well or at all. You can't go a couple days without reconciling things that this user might do while gone. Even opening a view and messing about to check progress is begging for him to harmlessly check out a workset so he can change a setting or two "temporarily". You get to find out how "harmless" when he returns.

You can easily get away with letting him take a "throwaway" local file to check progress because there is no reconciliation issues. As long as he doesn't check out any worksets before leaving.

[PeterJ]

How long to do the save to Central, Steve? You are doing essentially the same as me, don't you find it takes a long time?

[Steve_Stafford]

How long to do the save to Central, Steve? You are doing essentially the same as me, don't you find it takes a long time?
They take the normal amount of time because I'm doing the STC "from the office" remotely. I upload the local file to my office PC, and use Remote Desktop to start the STC on my office PC. I'm just "looking" at my office PC through my home PC. It's pretty slick really.

[Scott D Davis]

Steve,

How does WATG deal with security of a VPN and remote desktop sharing. We want all of that in our office, but our IT department is really leery of the security problems it might cause.

[Chunk]

We tried...with limited success...to work on Revit files residing on our server from remote locations internationally via an RDP session to a terminal server in our office through secured encrypted ports. Works great other than occassional video lag because you can hit the terminal server from any 'dark-net' connected machine. It's essentially a long...really long...video/keyboard cable back to the office. Only problems we've encountered are simultaneous terminal server users working on the same central file end up checking out worksets with the same username. Doesn't seem that Revit is capable of differentiating between multiple windows authenticated users even though FlexLM signs out a license for each session.

Anyone have any other experiences?

[Steve_Stafford]

Steve,

How does WATG deal with security of a VPN and remote desktop sharing. We want all of that in our office, but our IT department is really leery of the security problems it might cause.The VPN application creates a secure tunnel that "locks" out "regular" internet access. Not everyone has access to it unless there is sufficient reason to provide it to them. The "reason" varies naturally.

I'm not an expert on this stuff though...just use it.

[ajayholland]

The VPN application creates a secure tunnel that "locks" out "regular" internet access.

Same here at Little Diversified - When logged in to the VPN, all other Internet access is blocked. Our experiments with remote access to Revit central files have demonstrated that the strategy is not yet practical.

Parenthetically, I've been advised by our well-informed CIO that a solution for this problem is under development at Autodesk. With the future need for collaboration among various consultants (structural, mechanical, etc.) all using Revit, one would expect this to be a high priority.

~AJH

[beegee]

Parenthetically, I've been advised by our well-informed CIO that a solution for this problem is under development at Autodesk. With the future need for collaboration among various consultants (structural, mechanical, etc.) all using Revit, one would expect this to be a high priority.

~AJH
I would also expect that many of the methodologies / project sharing solutions / permissions / security systems etc used in the Freedom Tower project will find their way into Revit before too long.

[irwin]

Jeffrey, let me see if I understand the requirements.
1) The boss takes a copy of the latest version of the central file home with him.
2) At that time, he doesn't know what he might change.
3) While at home or on the road, he might make changes to some elements.
4) These changes might occur when he has no network connection.
5) Other users must be free to change any element of the model while the boss is away.

If all of these conditions are true then, as Steve pointed out, there is no way to guarantee conflict avoidance. This is not just true of Revit; it applies to any software that can neither predict the future nor read minds at a distance (these are not planned for Revit until versions 17 and 18, respectively ;-) ).

If this is what you are trying to do then the recommended approach is that the boss makes his changes at risk. He should immediately call up someone in the office and have that user switch to the boss's user name, open the central file, and make those elements or worksets editable.

[beegee]

Can I have a beta of R18 please. ( But you already knew that ... right ? )

[Scott D Davis]

....are not planned for Revit until versions 17 and 18, respectively ;) ).Good to know you guys are planning for the future!

[hand471037]

If all of these conditions are true then, as Steve pointed out, there is no way to guarantee conflict avoidance. This is not just true of Revit; it applies to any software that can neither predict the future nor read minds at a distance (these are not planned for Revit until versions 17 and 18, respectively ;-) ).

Ha! :D

well, actually, you're a touch off with your requirements. Actually, what's important here is that the Boss wants to use the system he's comfortable with (Breifcases) that allows him to check work out, take it home, and work on it. When he 'checks it back in' I think it's smart enough to notice that the file has changed in his absence, and alert him to that fact without saving over the top of it, allowing for him to either skip it, copy from the server to his laptop, or copy from his laptop to the server. Since we're a rather small office, he can easily ask prior to telling it what to do. This way he knows he has (and this is paramount):

1. The Latest Version of Everything and 2. He's not going to Screw it Up.

However, this only works with little things like office documents, and individual AutoCAD files. Before, with AutoCAD, he was able to just put the whole project folder in a Briefcase, and while he was 80% of the time just dealing with Word documents and such, and 10% of the time he was just opening the DWG's to review them, 10% of the time he actually makes changes to them. It's very project-specific.

But now with Revit if he changes anything within the main Project file, the stupid Briefcase will think the file changed (which it has) and ask him to copy it back (which he doesn't 90% of the time). Now, without worksets, this is fine. He knows if someone's been working on the file, knows not to copy over their work, and can 'publish' his file over the top of the one on the server without fear & with trust (for the system warns him if it's changed since he's left). Now, with worksets, the file that's copied into his breifcase thinks its the central file, and complianes that it was moved when it's opened. I thought about making a local file for him to put in his briefcase, and just tellimg him to ignore the error when he works with it off-line. However, if he does make changes, and no one else has worked on the file while he's been gone, there is no way for him to save those changes back when he returns and no way for him to know if someone has made changes or not. The System can't tell him that the Central file has changed, and he still has to open his local and STC anyways when he returns- adding a manual and time-consuming step to his usally automatic process.

So, I'm just trying to figure out a way that I can meet # 1 and # 2 above in a easy fashon, and uses what he's used to and comfortable with. We can live without worksets in early Schematics, and I feel like this is kinda my fault for showing what Worksets can do for ya to everyone, so now everyone wants to use them eariler than they might have before.

[ariasdelcid]

Change Boss...

[m.k.sunil]

This might be a workaround for now:

Before your boss transfers the file to the laptop. You could make a local copy in your machine with his username( this should be same as in his machine ) and save a local copy. Make editable any worksets needed by him. This copy will open in the laptop without a warning for "resaving".

Next day you can use the same process to open the file in your office machine( username same as your boss) and save to central.

[Steve Cashman]

I just wanted to add that we've been using VPN connections to our office (Smalll Business Server 2000) for over a year and it works fine except for some long STC (10-20 minutes).

Just recently, I started using VPN to Remote Desktop Sharing and that works really well. As far as Revit is concern, I'm in my office and the STCs are as fast as can be. We have an architectural consultant out of state that using VPN into our office daily and we may setup a computer in our office so he can use the Remote Desktop Sharing approach since it's so much fast.