Wall Structure

[annl]

I can't find any clear documentation or direction on using Wall Structure "Function" setups.

We have been using Finish 1 [4] and Finish 2 [5] without respect to intent. Substrate and Structure are not clearly understood and are mixed use categories.

So here is my interpretation based on AUGI forums, blogs and experience. There are conflicting explanations out there on the 'net.

[1] Structure. This is the core structural element of a wall. What you want the wall center line to identify as the "core". Question: Would you have multiple layers of "Structure" ? -- I am choosing only 1 element for wall cores: Concrete, CMU, Studs. Everything else is function [2] and above.

[2] Substrate. Counter intuitive, but interpreting this to be vertical wall elements used to support finishes: Furring, yes. What about Sheathing or any Backings, are they Substrate or Finish?

[3] Thermal Air/Layer Insulation. Dead space between Structure/Substrate and Finish or 0" width Insulation material.

[4] Finish 1. Now it gets complicated. I interpret this to be the first layer of Finishes (i.e. Interior to the last material), either side (Exterior / Interior) of wall. Can have multiple levels of Finish [4] -- not really a finish, but supports the Finish [5] material. Examples: Backing materials, Sheathing, Mortar. Don't wrap this material necessarily.

[5] Finish 2. Final layer of material on either wall side (Exterior / Interior) of wall. Not multiple layers of Finish [5]. Examples: Stucco, Gypsum, Brick Veneer. What the world sees. Usually wrap this material.

Have also read in blogs that Finish 1 [4] goes only on the Exterior side of the wall and Finish 2 [5] goes only on the Interior side.

Is there a definitive explanation of these strata functions anywhere?

[meken]

What about paint if the wall is painted - isn't that the actual "finish" the cement render or plasterboard is a substrate is it not?

[Dimitri Harvalias]

How about I throw a little more confusion into the mix?:lol:

The function you assign to a layer in an assembly is 'almost' irrelevant. You can classify gypsum board or paint as Structural if you want. Conversly Concrete can be a Finish. There are three primary purposes for the function setting.

The function assignment will determine how Revit performs wall cleanup
Different linetypes and line weights can be assigned based on the function of the wall layer.
When exporting to DWG you can assign each function to a separate layer.Purpose 2 and 3 are pretty self-explanatory.
Wall clean up is very important in determining how much of the drafting of lines Revit will automatically do for you. In simple terms a (1) has a higher priority than a (2) and (2) higher than (3) and down the line.
Think of a wood frame wall/floor connection. The sub-floor should be continuous under the studs but the floor finish wants to stop at the face of the stud. If the finish is a (2) and the stud is a (1) then this will happen. If the sub-floor is assigned a (2) then it will also stop at the face of the stud.

Check out the images and notice the wall function assignments and how they affect how the floor and wall layers clean up.
In image 1 look at the ceiling finish and wall finish. The layer closestr to the joist has a higher priority than the wall finish therefore it goes 'through' the wall finish. The outer finish of the ceiling has the same priortiy as the wall finish. Because they are different materials we still get a line separating them. If they were the same material they would show in a similar way as the floor and exterior sheathing on the top of the floor.

[annl]

I appreciate the post. Been away for the long weekend and just checking back.

[r.grandmaison]

Paints are not considered “finishes” but are considered coatings. Think of a finish more as a permanent item of construction that isn’t easily changed.

(Late to the likely dead thread, but it is what it is!)