Previous Versions of Revit

[bkoster343497]

Today we had to get into a Revit file we created in 2007. When we tried to open the file in 2009 it crashed during the upgrade. Luckily we still have 2007 installed due to some older projects in construction still in 2007 so we went in and fixed all of the errors and were able to upgrade.

This got me thinking. Right now we have 2007, 2008, 2009 and now 2010 installed on computers here. Are we forever going to have to keep these older versions installed if we ever need to get into these files 3 or even 10 years from now and will Autodesk licensing or subscription allow up to have these older versions years from now?

[Brian Myers]

Assuming you are on subscription and you have not purchased separate versions of Revit each year... no, you will not be able to use the 2007 version 10 years from now. You are essentially exchanging the right to use these legacy versions of the software by keeping them on subscription and paying a lower amount than full price for each upgrade.You will likely need to upgrade each Revit project to the latest version each time you wish to modify a 2007 format in the future.

[Gadget Man]

Assuming you are on subscription and you have not purchased separate versions of Revit each year... no, you will not be able to use the 2007 version 10 years from now. You are essentially exchanging the right to use these legacy versions of the software by keeping them on subscription and paying a lower amount than full price for each upgrade.You will likely need to upgrade each Revit project to the latest version each time you wish to modify a 2007 format in the future.

Is that so??? Is it explicitly stated anywhere?

And if so, how about all these advices of keeping the jobs started in an earlier release in that version?

How about advice to keep an older and the new versions installed side-by-side on a single machine?

And if that is the case why Revit asks you if you want to keep an older version while installing the new one, instead of automatically removing the old version? (Not that this would be any good!)

And where is a demarcation line of how many older versions you can keep back? So the latest and one below is OK but two earlier is not??? It doesn't hold the water! This is just plain rubbish... Or if it happens to be true it's one of the biggest idiocies I have came across...

Because logically speaking, how many different people can use different Revit versions simultaneously on the same machine??? And even if the versions are installed on different machines (potentially giving an additional "spare" workplace) how many offices and for how long would like to work like that??? If you are a sole operator - it is not applicable. If there are several people in the firm using Revit, most likely they would be using networked environment with the libraries (and possibly central files) sitting on the server, so there would be immediate compatibility issue. To me it doesn't hold the water...

[robert768019]

Assuming you are on subscription and you have not purchased separate versions of Revit each year... no, you will not be able to use the 2007 version 10 years from now. You are essentially exchanging the right to use these legacy versions of the software by keeping them on subscription and paying a lower amount than full price for each upgrade.You will likely need to upgrade each Revit project to the latest version each time you wish to modify a 2007 format in the future.

That's not an answer. I posed this problem some time ago,..How do you archive old projects?
We've had some in the office from 13 years ago we've needed to access, luckily on Autocad.
A 13 year old revit file???

[ws]

I've also been considering this problem in Revit as recently I've tried opening a project created in 2003 in Nemetschek's Allplan, but Allplan 2008 states that it cannot guarantee the conversion of anything pre-2004 but you can pay Nemetschek to do it for you ;)(in fact the conversion seemed to work OK, but the warning took me aback a bit).

So, it's a general problem it would seem.. the only Revit solution I can think of so far is to duplicate and then upgrade every project to the latest version - but obviously that doesn't seem to work for everyone :?

(BTW as it's just popped through the letter box.. Allplan 2009 arrived, no fuss, no downloads, just dvds in a large presentation box with a proper paper 'what's new' manual - Autodesk please note)

[thillhouse]

What is the current practice for archiving past projects? If we designed a building in Revit 2007 for a client and then they came back and want to upfit/renovate a portion of the building, and we are currently using Revit 2013, how far back does the file upgrade go? Should we keep a computer running with a Revit 3 iterations back so we can upgrade the file and then upgrade again? Is there a better way of doing this? I'm looking to see what to do with the actual Revit file. Other archiving practices of printing to PDF and Exporting to Cad we already do.

Thanks
Tim

[patricks]

I have upgraded files from 2006, even back to 2004 into 2012 and 2013. Granted these weren't large projects, but other than the "the way room areas are calculated has significantly changed" message, I usually don't have any problems other than some minor warnings that can usually be ignored and/or addressed later.

It's not really an issue for us. We keep at most 2 Revit versions running at any given time, and upgrade files when/if they're needed. Right now most machines have 2012 and 2013, but we only use 2013 now. I'll start my real-world testing of 2014 here pretty soon, and at some point I'll recommend we all go to it, and then we'll get rid of 2012 installations.

[MikeJarosz]

This is an old issue that affects not just Revit users, but everyone who stores files electronically. Librarians who are in charge of the collected knowlege of humankind worry about keeping copies of documents accessible by future generations. I worked at a firm that had CAD ten years before ACAD. It ran on a Digital Equipment VAX under the VMS operating system. Files were stored on one inch tapes. Some huge projects were done on that system (think airports) and the firm was the envy of others firms that could not afford such expensive equipment.

Years later, the building owner came to us for major renovations. By then we were in Acad. Nobody could figure out how to use the existing files. After some research, we reached the conclusion that the only feasible way to keep archive files usable was to uggrade them immediately every time a new version of the software is released. Feasible however, is not necessarily economical. First there is the task of loading into the new version the dozens or even hundreds of old projects and then saving the updates. Think of the time just to do all that. And then, there is no guarantee that we will ever need the updates. Owners switch architects all the time. So upgrades are an expense that may never pay off. Ultimately, the principals decided that paper drawings should be put in a warehouse. Primitive as this seems, it paid off. When the owner of a 55 story tower came to us for major alterations, we redrew it in our current system using the old blueprints.

Now, think about the situation that started this thread. The files were only a couple years apart and were in the same software, only different versions. What if they were in TinyCAD, or some other long forgotten system. Is there anyone around who knows TinyCAD or is willing to learn it? Do you think there is a working copy available somewhere running on an Intel 386 with a Hercules graphics card? The writing is on the wall even for ACAD. Students graduating today know multiple softwares, Acad being the last in line. Acad won't last forever. What will become of all those dwg files? In the long run, say about when you are ready to retire, maybe even Revit will retire with you. Then what becomes of your masterpiece project file in Revit format?

You'll be showing slides.......

[patricks]

I think PDF is the way to go for electronic versions of hard copy files. I'm fairly certain the PDF format is here to stay, and that's much more economical than storing paper in warehouses.

As for the actual project files, ACAD was and has become sort of the "standard" with regards to drawing in a computer. Almost every other software will import or export DWG files. And some like Revit also do Microstation DGN files. As long as software can at least read and import a DWG file I think those old ACAD project are safe in terms of their usefulness to future projects.

[MikeJarosz]

I think PDF is the way to go for electronic versions of hard copy files. I'm fairly certain the PDF format is here to stay, and that's much more economical than storing paper in warehouses.

As for the actual project files, ACAD was and has become sort of the "standard" with regards to drawing in a computer. Almost every other software will import or export DWG files. And some like Revit also do Microstation DGN files. As long as software can at least read and import a DWG file I think those old ACAD project are safe in terms of their usefulness to future projects.

You are assuming Autodesk will survive indefinitely. New software reads .dwg only because Autodesk allows it. I am not talking 3 or 4 years. I am talking 30 or 40 years. Long before Excel, there was this program called Lotus 1-2-3. It was king of the hill. If you weren't using it, you were a dinosaur. Then Lotus was bought by IBM. No way could so large a parent allow their new baby to die. Seen 1-2-3 lately? Have any of their files?

Do you like music? Can you play a 78? an 8 track? a wire recording? an Edison wax cylinder? Tons of music has been lost because the technology to play back the recordings has been lost. The NY Public Library has a music department that keeps old equipment alive, just to play their collection of old recordings. Billions of 33 rpms were sold (no exaggeration). Then one day, no more 33s. They became CDs. Then the CDs became DVDs. Then there was no tangible recording at all! mp3s and the cloud. True, some of the vast archive of old recordings were reisuued in new formats, as I described in my previous post, but sometimes it wasn't. Is there any demand for politically incorrect music to be reissued just to keep it alive?

Another example of computer files gone missing because technology marches on: Before the collapse of Communist East Germany, the secret police "Stasi" notoriously kept computerized files on virtually the entire population. Those files have become a cause celebre in reunited Germany. The computers used were antiquated miltary computers from the Soviet Union, written on tape, in miltary code, and then zipped using a top secret Soviet compression algorithm. I have not heard that anyone has cracked those files yet. Fortunately, they also kept spy data on index cards. Although those cards were shredded by the Stasi before they were disbanded, a group of fanatic jigsaw puzzlers in reunited Germany are slowing piecing the sheds back together.

I think it is naive to think that .dwg will live forever. Once Revit takes over, no one will be interested in dwg, and at some point Autodesk will drop support for it. Come to think of it, have you ever looked inside a DXF file? It's a text file, often a million lines long. You need a streaming text editor like SED to read one. It cannot fit into a memory editor. The American Library Association thinks that text-based files stand a chance of surviving for the eons ahead.

If they are on paper.

[Steve_Stafford]

At the rate reality capture is going we won't care about reusing those existing models? :)

[MikeJarosz]

True, we can just make new drawings from the standing building. No blueprints needed. But what about lost buildings like Penn Station? I have worked with McKim Meade and White original drawings for the NY Post Office. I can only imagine what the Penn Station drawings were like.

BTW, sorry for the rant. It's a topic that gets me going. "Acad is permanent" HA! like Oldsmobile, Pontiac and twinkies.

[DaveP]

I don't think you really have to worry about which version of .rvt or .dwg your files is in.
Chances are by the time you need it, you won't have anything that can read that media anyway!
How many files did (do?) you have backed up on 5.25" floppy disks? 3.5" floppies? ZIP drives? CDs? DVDs?
Do you still have a machine in the office that can read anything older that a CD?
And CD/DVD drives may not be standard equipment much longer.

[cdatechguy]

While you can open up older projects....you will find that you cannot edit the families contained in them...they are pretty much 3D blocks...

[dkoch]

I don't think you really have to worry about which version of .rvt or .dwg your files is in.
Chances are by the time you need it, you won't have anything that can read that media anyway!
How many files did (do?) you have backed up on 5.25" floppy disks? 3.5" floppies? ZIP drives? CDs? DVDs?
Do you still have a machine in the office that can read anything older that a CD?
And CD/DVD drives may not be standard equipment much longer.

That may be the case in smaller firms, but we do a lot of work for long-time clients and frequently go back to files from previous projects as a starting point for additional work. We have files going back to the early days of CAD on our network. And while many of these clients have a near-constant stream of projects, such that there is a frequent upgrading of files and file formats, we also have clients where there is either a gap in the work, or the work is in different areas and quite some time passes before a previous project becomes the subject of a renovation project.

So far, those have been CAD files, and, sometimes with a little tweaking to get them to work with our current means and methods, we have been able to make use of them. It will be interesting to see how this plays out as we do more and more work in Revit. The current Subscription deal only gives you access to the current version and three previous versions (without asking for special dispensation). I do not see the resources being made available to continuously upgrade archived projects in case we need that model for a new project in the future, but if there are issues with opening previous files in a version more than two or three removed from the authoring version, there may be some very unhappy people.