Floor slabs

[Valkin]

Question about floor slab?

In Revit Architecture there are 2 differnt floors,
Floors (architectural)
Structural Slab (Structural)

In Revit Architecture what is the difference between these 2 floor types?
From what I see the two slabs are identical, I know the slabs that are created in Revit Structural are differnt then the architecural ones, For one thing they can show the floor deck that the architectural ones can not (I wish the Architecural floors could do this)

Mathew

[iankids]

Hi Mam,

I am not certain about the usage terminology in USA, however, I would often use an "infill" slab (Architectural??) in instances where I would want the slab to form an attractive finished surface, but not be part of the structural element. Most commonly in a garage situation where the structural footing might be a strip footing and the infill slab is the finished surface which is able to go neatly up to the internal face of the brickwork.

Hope it makes sense

Cheers,


Ian

[m20roxxers]

You can add a decking but it only shows as another layer not the extra information.

I'm not sure what the point of creating this limited functionality is.
As for why both are in Revit Architecture it seems a glitch more then anything else, as it doesn't seem to add any additional functionality.

[Valkin]

My question is more of a Revit usage question

In Revit Architecture 2010 when you select floors you have the option to insert a Floor or a Structural Floor

In Revit Architecture 2009 and before you insert a Floor (under the modeling Design Bar) or Slab (under the Structural Desig Bar)

So my question is In Revit Architectre what is the difference. These floors apear to be using the same floor types, So why would you use over another. Over the last five or so years I have only used the Floor type not the Structural Floor (Slab).

Mathew

[m20roxxers]

If your setting up a model that will be used in conjunction with structural engineers then you can create structural floors and Architectural coverings over the top allowing easier use when starting to use tools like copy/monitor and it gives engineers access (or control in certain cases) over the slab or floor without affecting the Architects coverings. This however can be done using just floors overlaid on top of each other.

I think in terms of architectural use there is no difference.

[twaldock]

Matthew,
This looks like a design issue with the ribbon. I think that with v2009 we had a structural menu which had columns, walls and slabs which were also available in the basic or modelling menu as architectural columns, walls and slabs.
- In the case of columns there is a dramatic difference between structural and architectural (and never interchangeable);
- with the walls the only difference is that the structural wall command flags the wall as "Bearing" under its structural usage, while architectural walls are flagged as "Non-bearing" - these settings can be changed after the event to make them architectural or structural (however, there is no subtlety in being able to separate non-structural wall plies from a structural wall).
- Floors appear to be identical whichever command is used. However, it would be really useful if we could flag floors by their structural usage in exactly the same way as walls are done. Then it would be easy to separate the architectural finish floors (we currently filter by name).

My guess is that the designers of the ribbon decided to keep the two floor commands in case someone complained about losing a tool from v2009. or else they are planning to add a difference later? We need Autodesk to enlighten us on this one.

[tomnewsom]

We seperated structural and architectural floors in a recent project - Structural slabs span the whole floor and stopped (in this case) 100mm below FFL. Architectural floors were then added in the various areas of the building to show the different floor finishes. This approach worked well - especially when it came to construction drawings. Very easy to show the concrete only.

[Valkin]

This is something I've been contenplating since Revit 9.1 when i fist saw Slab in the structural design bar. I know in 2010 they just renamed Slab's to structural floors.

What tomnewsom said hit on the nature on my question.

We seperated structural and architectural floors in a recent project - Structural slabs span the whole floor and stopped (in this case) 100mm below FFL. Architectural floors were then added in the various areas of the building to show the different floor finishes. This approach worked well - especially when it came to construction drawings. Very easy to show the concrete only.

I had been contemplating on weither or not to create 2 floors one that is strictly the strucurual floor and one that is the (for better term) Finish floor. Just not sure at this time is there any added perameters to a Structural Slab, vs a Floor.

Thanks for the input Guys

[Derek_SE]

Here's my $0.02

By default an architectural floor is a simple object with no structural analytical properties.

Be default a Structural floor/slab has structural analysis properties. (i.e. structural slabs can be linked to structural analysis and design programs to determine stress and deflections etc) Also, rebar cover settings and a span direction symbol will be added by default to it.

On an Integrated project generally, architectural floor would be used to reflect finishes and non-structural items. Structural Slab would just be concrete and steel deck, or wood sheathing and joist, or metal deck and bar joist...the "structure" if you will.

[jspartz]

Derek is correct. The difference is in the analysis and how it can display too. If a structural floor is done in Revit Structure it has more data and parameters to it. You can't modify these extra fields in Revit Architecture, so within Revit Architecture if you draw one or the other you don't get added functionality. The added functionality is in Revit Structure. I would guess that it is there so you can add a Structural one for your structural team to modify later.

[twaldock]

If architectural floors and structural slabs have different properties but you can't see that in Revit Architecture, how do we know which is which after the event. Is it possible to change one for the other using RAC? We always create architectural floors for both the main floor slab and the separate finishes layers on top (always kept separate as extents in plan are never the same), but this may cause a problem when we share models with structural engineers?

[m20roxxers]

I don't know who is coming up with this stuff but I will say it again.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ARCHITECTURAL & STRUCTURAL FLOORS OR SLABS IN REVIT ARCHITECTURE. Just to highlight the main point :)

whatever people are saying have obviously not used both packages. There are no "hidden parameters" Things like analytical properties become available as soon as you tick the structural box in the instance properties which you can only do from Revit Structure.

As for reinforcement cover and options these require a material (if no physical material is set to nothing or to concrete) to be selected once this is selected and the structural tick box is turned on (again only in Revit Structure) these values will appear in the properties of any Revit platform.

If you were to open this back up in Revit Architecture you will clearly see these values but you will not be able to interact with them.

Again slabs and floors in 2009 are the same thing. Structural & Architectural floors in 2010 Revit Architecture are the same thing. Why they put both in there? beats me but probably so they can laugh at threads like this.

[drash]

"THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ARCHITECTURAL & STRUCTURAL FLOORS OR SLABS IN REVIT ARCHITECTURE."

I'm pretty new to this whole Revit Scene, and I was kind of curious as to what the difference was myself. I've used AutoCAD for most of my Architectual Work, and Revit is proving to be a better tool by far.

Thank You for the clear and concise information. I truly do appreciate it.

[Mike Sealander]

I think they put the structural slabs in RAC so architects could pretend they were modelling structural elements. It's like the beams and columns; they are pretend.

[chad.219845]

I am working on a file that must be exported to IFC. It can only contain objects called "slabs" not floors. How do I get a slab family, because either command (slab or floor) still is a floor element (not a slab element)

[arqt49]

I don't know who is coming up with this stuff but I will say it again.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ARCHITECTURAL & STRUCTURAL FLOORS OR SLABS IN REVIT ARCHITECTURE. Just to highlight the main point :)


You must have forgotten the Structural Deck function and a very small yes/no structural parameter ;)

[4erneg436816]

Can somebody tell me how can I hiding out architectural floor on view and leave only structural slabs if they are modeling by different commands (floor/structural floor). Changing Architecture to Structure in view properties doesn't help

[arqt49]

Try using a view filter.
A simple YesNo parameter will do, and you can use the Structural one for floor instances.