show surface patterns below other surface

[DoTheBIM]

I had this brainy idea pop into my head this morning but it seems we may have to make a sacrifice (which may not be an option) to make it work and I'd like confirmation that there is no way to do what I'd like.

So we have a to create these roof sheathing layouts. Currently we show the roof object then sketch detail lines all over it to represent the sheathing lines/breaks on the slopes. This morning I thought, "Why not show a 4x8 surface pattern and shift it to suit?" Don't know why it took me so long to think of that. But anyway I set up the pattern and applied it and started testing workflow to make it work. Well our roof object is set up with two layers, sheathing and shingle. From the top all I see is shingle pattern and from the bottom all I see is sheathing pattern. Well maybe we could use a ceiling view, but showing hidden lines for roof below doesnt exactly work. paint over the top with 4x8 pattern changes all my view so that don't work. So I'm thinking at this point that my only option is to changed our standard look to not show surface patterns then paint the surface to view in plans that we do want to see surface patterns. I'd like to just "hide" one layer (top shingle layer) of my roof in a view and I'd get the best of everything, but I'm not seeing a way to get this done. Anyone have a better way to accomplish what I'd like?

[cliff collins]

Perhaps set up a View Template which has surface patterns either on or off
and apply it to each view as required?

Just a quick thought..........

cheers........

[DoTheBIM]

I don't see how view templates will help when I can't seem to accomplish what I want in one view. Maybe I was not quite clear. Maybe a simplified question would be, How do you show one surface pattern from one layer of roof in one view and a different surface pattern of a different layer in a different view? Not sure that's any more clear.

[Andre Carvalho]

What if you create your roof layers as two roofs? Build the first one and add the sheating pattern then copy it up, change thickness and use the shingle pattern. Then on the views you want to show the sheating only, select the top layer and hide element on that view...

Andre Carvalho

[DoTheBIM]

Thought of that but really don't want to maintain 2 roof objects in all our standard product models 200+ and if something changes we have to change it twice or more AND remember to do it twice or recopy all roof object up vertically their respective distances based on pitch steepness.

[twiceroadsfool]

You cant show the surface pattern of a layer that isnt the top (visible) layer. And you cannot hide individual layers of objects, though i know a lot of people have asked for it.

If you really want it, you can make it two roofs. (This is much easier done than you think, because you can Copy | Paste same Place | switch type and raise it appropriate amount. Then in your roof plan you can make the top portion transparent using Ovveride Graphics in View.

EDIT: Forgot to hit post for 6 hours, LOL.

Those are really your only options, for better or worse.

[DoTheBIM]

I'm not opposed to a copy of a roof in that it would be difficult, but rather that it then becomes a.... shall we say... "less parametric" object. When you copy and paste a roof it looses all it's relationships to the walls. If something changes (depending on the change, it might be quicker to adjust detail lines rather than adjust two roofs. Yep, I know you can copy/paste same place again, but that tool is used so infrequently (although a very good times saver) that it is forgotten by most of my users and they will merely make edits twice or worse go back to using detail lines. I want my cake and I want to eat it. Guess the lack of a minor work around confirms I'm out of options. Bah.... guess I'll just propose that we don't show any roof surface patterns on our elevations and see how that flies. Or just show a ceiling plan of just the roof in wire frame with the trade off of not showing hidden lines where applicable. If neither of those work, I guess we'll continue messing with detail lines... but that's so CADish.:cry:

[Andre Carvalho]

Well, then I think your last option would be creating it as one roof and add the main pattern as being the sheating. Then on the views where you don't want to see the sheating pattern, you go to Visibility / Graphics overrides > Model categories > Roof > override the pattern. The only thing here is that this pattern that will override the sheating has to be a drafting pattern. If you are using the default shingle pattern you are OK. I suggested using the sheating as main pattern because it has to be model pattern (to keep its 4'x8' dimensions).

A view template would take care of all your views.

Give it a try.

Andre Carvalho

[DoTheBIM]

:grin:OOH OOH!! Very close. I'll give that a try as soon as I can.8):beer:

[twiceroadsfool]

Not a bad idea, i would just consider using a Filter for the override, that way you can control WHICH roofs it overrides back to shingles, instead of doing the entire catagory. Of course, that only matters if you have some roofs that arent shingles.

But you could set up a filter based on a text parameter or a yes/no, and have it override THOSE roofs to shingles in certain views, then use a VT to control which views have the filters on.

But you STILL cant have both: the shingles and the sheathing pattern, unless its two roofs.

[DoTheBIM]

So close to what I need to sell this... but... roof surfaces skewed from view don't play nice. see pic. would work in the majority of cases though.

[Andre Carvalho]

So close to what I need to sell this... but... roof surfaces skewed from view don't play nice. see pic. would work in the majority of cases though.

Hmm. Is that the drafting pattern? I tried looking at the image you posted to try to replicate it here but I couldn't understand the roof footprint. Can you post a view fro the top?

Andre Carvalho

[DoTheBIM]

It's just a two straight gable (single ridge) roofs, one rotated about 30 deg or so. Using fixed font below you'd be standing at the X looking up the screen. Fixed font lines represent top view.

|------------------/\
| / \
| / \
|---------------/ \
| / \ \
| / \ \
|____________/ \ _/
\ \ _/
\ _/
\ _/
X \/

Edit: Well that didn't work.

[DoTheBIM]

lets try this. see attached.

[Andre Carvalho]

lets try this. see attached.

OK. Don't ask me why, but if you create a new elevation and not use the one that's already there (or use a section in front of the building (as if it was an elevation)), you won't see this problem. At least I solved it this way here.

Andre Carvalho

[DoTheBIM]

Did you reapply the override in the new elevation?

[Andre Carvalho]

Did you reapply the override in the new elevation?

That was it. I forgot to reapply the override. :Oops: I don't know why my view scale was set to 1" = 1'-10" and therefore both patterns looked the same.

I'll keep trying to figure it out and will post back if I find something.

Andre Carvalho

[Andre Carvalho]

I'll keep trying to figure it out and will post back if I find something.

Andre Carvalho

Well I had another idea, but I'm not sure if it would work for you: I created a new model pattern that shows both the sheating (as dashed) and shingles at once. See attached.

The problem is that after creating the model pattern, I realized that I forgot to make the sheating staggered... DOH!!! It was too late and I didn't have time to fix it, so I'm posting it like that, just to share the idea.

Attached are the model, images and the PAT file in case you want to edit it.

Andre Carvalho

[Scott Womack]

Wouldn't the easiest way to accomplish this is to add the roof to a design option, then in that design option, take the roof/material and assign a different material with the secondary pattern on it? Then you are maintaining 1+ roofs, but in the decking view just set the roof design option to the option?

[DoTheBIM]

Wouldn't the easiest way ...That's not really any different than making a roof set on top of another roof. Design options still create a second copy of the roof and break the relationship of the roof to the walls. Plus you would then need a new roof type to assign a different material/pattern to it. If it's a one off type project then anyone of these methods would work, but I'm eventually going to want to apply it accross 200 standard designs, so that we're not doing whatever we figure out multiple times when it comes time to base a real project from one of these standard designs.

[DoTheBIM]

Well I had another idea, but I'm not sure if it would work for you: I created a new model pattern that shows both the sheating (as dashed) and shingles at once. See attached.

The problem is that after creating the model pattern, I realized that I forgot to make the sheating staggered... DOH!!! It was too late and I didn't have time to fix it, so I'm posting it like that, just to share the idea.No worries on the staggering, I get what your trying there. Another worthy idea:beer: (Wish I had more of you to work with in here;)), but that wouldn't really work for us as there is no way to diminish the shingle and draw attention to the sheathing in the plan view and vice versa for the elevation/3d views.