Interoperability between MEP and Architecture?

[etiennecmouton]

This morning i was asked a simple question which I am not to sure about?

Here goes:

Within Revit MEP you create a eg. ceiling based A/C diffuser, you link it into the Revit Architecture model... what happens to the MEP component when it is based in a ceiling which is part of the Architecture model when the model ie the ceiling is modified.

Who controls that, would the diffuser simply disappear or would it modify along with the the Architecture based ceiling?

Thanks

[twiceroadsfool]

This morning i was asked a simple question which I am not to sure about?

Here goes:

Within Revit MEP you create a eg. ceiling based A/C diffuser, you link it into the Revit Architecture model... what happens to the MEP component when it is based in a ceiling which is part of the Architecture model when the model ie the ceiling is modified.

Who controls that, would the diffuser simply disappear or would it modify along with the the Architecture based ceiling?

Thanks

They wont be able to use ceiling hosted elements, if the ceiling is in the Architectural Model. They will have to:

1. use a Face Based family, instead of a Ceiling Hosted.
2. Copy the ceilings in to the MEP model.

If the former: When the ceiling is moved, the lights will move. If the ceiling is deleted, the lights will stay.

If the latter, the ceilings wont stay coordinated automatically, since Copy Monitor doesnt work on ceilings...

[cporter.207875]

Clarification: unfortunately, if you use face based or work plane fixtures (lights and diffusers), their horizontal locations will not update automatically when you update the arch model. For instance, you load an updated arch model in which the ceiling grids have shifted a few inches in one direction or another. You will have to manually move your lights and diffusers to align with the grids. It can be very frustrating for the mech and elec designers when we architects wait until the last minute to finalize our ceiling grids, in the meantime issuing weekly updates with perpetually changing grid layouts. Because of this issue, it might prove more productive to use Aaron's 2nd solution: "copy the ceilings into the MEP model." MEP can align (and lock) their fixtures to their own ceiling, then simply adjust the grid of their ceiling to match the update from the Architect. This can save a lot of time in coordinating the grid layouts, but you probably want to place the ceilings on a workset that is not visible by default. That way the redundant ceiling will not "exist" when the MEP model is linked into the Arch model.

[cporter.207875]

If the latter, the ceilings wont stay coordinated automatically, since Copy Monitor doesnt work on ceilings...

One way around this might be to create a workplane associated with the linked Arch ceiling, and place the MEP ceiling on that workplane. I didn't test it but perhaps the workplane would stay coordinated with the linked Arch ceiling (for revisions to the vertical locations), and the MEP ceiling would stay coordinated with the workplane? Hmm... I'll have to check on this one.

[twiceroadsfool]

The issue reaches farther than ceilings, though. The same things are true for any MEP fixtures and any hosting elements in the Arch Model. Unless the MEP consultants want to Copy Monitor every single wall/floor/ceiling in to their project, they cant host anything on your walls/floors/ceilings using actual Hosted Fixtures. They will have to use Face Based.

Its 6 of one half dozen of the other. Either bring in virtually all the architectural stuff (some of which wont CM so its a manual coordination effort), or have some items that dont shift accordingly with the alignment of the architectural objects. Pick your poison. :)

[sthedens]

This is such a fundemental need of implementing a fully modeled building I can't understand that this hasn't been resolved by now. We had MEP engeineers working in the same model as the architects to avoid all of these issues only to discover huge performance hits, too-many-cooks-in-the-kitchen syndrom and HVAC space boundaries screwing up room definitions.

The whole Copy/Monitoring and Coordination Review process is a real pain.