Room awareness and multi-category schedules

[PeterJ]

Has anyone found a way of making windows room aware and then incorporating the area of that room in a window schedule?

I have played around with shared parameters and can use these to sort the windows by room and then show room finishes etc for that room, but it does not appear possible to expose the room area in the schedule, it also requires that I select each window by hand and apply its room reference to it, which is a little tedious.

Just to explain the underlying issue, I need to schedule windows by room and then collect them together by room so that for each room I can calculate out opening area and glass area. I know people have discussed this before (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=814&highlight=glass+area), but the discussion didn't seem to go anywhere.

[Steve_Stafford]

Has anyone found a way of making windows room aware and then incorporating the area of that room in a window schedule?Not natively in schedules, not yet. I did an experiment with the odbc export to Access and used Access queries to create such a report but it involves a lot of manual data entry in Revit to get there. You have to have a common field in rooms and windows and this has to be entered manually.

[PeterJ]

That was broadly speaking my findings. I think what I need to do is format two separate sections, sorted by room, and then export as text, import to Excel to marry them up and do the maths then reimport the resultant layout - probably as a jpg or something similar.

[Phil Palmer]

Peter,

Is this not available now in 7.0 ?
I thought we could now add parameters from the room to any schedule now ?

[PeterJ]

Is this not available now in 7.0 ?
I thought we could now add parameters from the room to any schedule now ?
Try it Phil, It exposes finishes, occupant etc to you but not area, that I can see at any rate.

[mtogni]

I really don't understand... room area is one of the most important parameter (if not "the" most important at all) of a room and it's not available... What's the reason??? It could be interesting to know from Revit guys... (not to talk about room volume: I NEED IT!!!!)

[Phil Palmer]

That seems really crazy !

The strange thing about this as well is that you CAN schedule any expternal parameter you have added to the room parameters but no area ?

They must be a logical answer to this please ?

[Steve_Stafford]

That seems really crazy !

The strange thing about this as well is that you CAN schedule any expternal parameter you have added to the room parameters but no area ?

They must be a logical answer to this please ?Might have something to do with the geopraxis gbxml feature?

[ronjon]

Hi Peter,
In 6.1, I have been able to approximate what you are seeking as a multi-category tag and schedule. I have not tried this in 7.0 to see if any improvements were made.
This is not a fully automated process, but a semi-automated one that should reduce some of your workload.

I have a client who would like to track LEED type information with windows; specifically lite sf and ventilation sf per window and compare this with the requirements of a room based upon square footage.

Outline of Steps:
1. Add / Create Shared Parameters - Area Type parameters: Lite SF, Vent SF, and Room Area
2. Add / Create Shared Parameters - Integer parameter: Room No
3. Start or Open an existing project
4. Import Shared Parameters: Lite SF, Vent SF, Room Area, and Room No
a) Settings>Project Parameters>Add>Shared Parameters>Select button (select one above)
b) Set value as Type for Lite SF and Vent SF; Set value as Instance for Room Area and Room Number
c) Check Window and Door categories in window
5. Select windows in the model; Edit properties for all 4 ( 2 instances / 2 types)
Note: for the area; just assign this to one opening in that room to act as a placeholder
6. Create a Multi-Category Schedule with categories in this order:
Room No, Room Area, Lite SF, Vent SF
Set Sort / Grouping by Room No; w Footer>Title Count and Totals; Blank Line
Itemize every instance
7. Add Calculation Value Categories to Schedule:
a) Reqd Lite: Room Area*0.08 (set percentage as reqd)
b) Reqd Vent: Room Area*0.04 (set percentage as reqd)
8. Place the Reqd categories respectively before similar categories. Change Lite and Vent category headings, by prefacing it with the word: " Actual "
a) Schedule Formatting: Set both Lite and Vent series categories to: Calculate Total
9. Create a Multi-Category Tag to show both Lite and vent series categories if you want to make this more visual in the model.

My Comments:
A) This schedule is for the purpose of backchecking your design. I probably wouldn't use this schedule for CD's or for code submittal.
B) I agree this process should be more automated than what I have come up with.

Let me know if this is close to what you are seeking!

Enjoy,

[Steve_Stafford]

Nice effort John!

Can you clarify some things for me? (since I have a moment to type this but not enough right now to track through your process myself :( )


I'd like to know what happens when you add a window of a different type to the same room with others?
You have to manual create the light/vent values in each window, true? Any reason you couldn't calculate this in the window using width/height or similar? I don't think so...but curious if you tried?
You manually add the room area value to one window (each room) and this you'll have to maintain, true?
Thanks!!

[ronjon]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the comments!

Responses to your questions:
Q1. I'd like to know what happens when you add a window of a different type to the same room with others?
A1. Because the Sort / Grouping is set to room number, mixed families / sizes will group to the room number they are associated with. As mentioned, this is made possible by adding a shared parameter to the family (instance param) for this purpose to track these assets to specific rooms.

Q2. You have to manually create the light/vent values in each window, true? Any reason you couldn't calculate this in the window using width/height or similar? I don't think so...but curious if you tried?
A2. Yes, you have to manually add the values to each window type in my example. I was going for simplicity here. This also allows you to reverse engineer existing projects. Worst case, ? marks appear when the multi-category tag values are zero. Regarding your second comment, I could foresee calculating the shared values within the family itself if present. I just didn't take it that far. Great idea.

Q3. You manually add the room area value to one window (each room) and this you'll have to maintain, true?
A3. Yes, you will have to adopt some kind of convention as to which window in the room will be the placeholder for room area. This is strictly a manual association. I would like to see this as an automated process.
For example: Why can't I create a custom Shared Parameter that references another categories default parameter? MyRoomNo=Room>Area

[PeterJ]

Good workaround John. It's not as neat as I would like, but it is a starting point.

For your own info, if you make the room area a calculated field in the last schedule and uncheck itemise each instance you will get single lines for each room that sum all the window instances... makes it a little closer to something you could submit.

[noah]

I haven't tried it yet but it appears to be the closest thing to a lite/vent schedule I've seen. I'll try it as soon as I get a chance.

Is it possible to add doors and skylights to this multi-category schedule? I would image that I would just set interior doors lite/vent values to 0 so only exterior doors add to the total.

Still scratching my head as to why Revit doesn't contain the built-in ability to produce lite/vent which is the most basic international building code requirement. You can't get a permit unless you satisfy this therefore you must design knowing whether you are meeting this requirement right from the beginning. How did Revit get through 7 versions without someone (since everyone has to do this) screaming for what is a pretty basic calculation that takes advantage of just two variables - the room area and the lite/vent areas? Seems like Revit isn't all that residential after all.

[Steve_Stafford]

Is everything on your ToDo list done? ;-) Their's is pretty big...have you toured the wish list lately? All of us against them! I'm rooting for the underdog!

I've been asking them for Lite/Vent scheduling since I started using Revit but I wouldn't trade much of what we've got for them yet. Revit still makes it easier to figure out than the alternatives and John's strategy will work for now...

[ronjon]

Noah,
To answer your question, yes. I didn't show a picture of what categories the shared parameters are assigned to, but I selected both Doors and Windows for Vent and Light Parameters.

Your suggestion of setting "Interior Doors" to zero seems valid within this context. I guess the question is what is the correct approach for applying the concept?

Approach 1: Use one door family for both exterior and interior conditions. Apply Lite & Vent shared parameters as instance based parameters.

Approach 2: Use two door families, one for exterior and one for interior conditions. Apply Lite & Vent shared parameters as type based parameters.

[noah]

I'm posting this to bring it back to the top. John's original post suggests a nice multi-category schedule to show both windows and doors in a lite/vent schedule. jmarlovits' post I think is a better solution because I don't have to associate the room area with a place holder but I can't have both doors and windows in the same schedule.

John also suggested that his method was good for design development but that...

"This schedule is for the purpose of backchecking your design. I probably wouldn't use this schedule for CD's or for code submittal."

If this is the case then what are people submitting for lite/vent to building departments? Do others just have an excel worksheet that duplicates the window schedule and calculates lite/vent? This is how we're doing it now and it's not that hard but does anyone have a better solution (a Revit solution that they actual submit)?

Thanks!