Rotate Column

[Chad Smith]

How do you go about rotating a column around the X or Y axis, not Z?
I would like to put a lean on a column, but the rotate command gives an alert: Can't rotate element into this position.

[Steve_Stafford]

Check out the structural elevations feature...

[Chad Smith]

Structural Elevations?

I checked out the help, and can't find anything relating to this.
Is it a view, command, option?
Where can I find this?

Thanks.

[beegee]

Steve means "Framing Elevation View"

Framing elevation views describe the general orientation and sizes of structural braces. For example, bracing elevation views show the bracing member extents defined by implied and dimensioned centerline references to beams and columns. After creating a framing elevation view, a structural engineer might then make callout views of the connections for more precise definition of the end conditions and connection, such as number of bolts at connection, and length and size of welds.
Framing elevation views are similar to interior elevation views. You create a framing elevation view from an existing plan view

To Create a Framing Elevation View
Open a structural plan view.

From the Structural tab of the Design Bar, click Framing Elevation.

Place the pointer in the document window and click to place the elevation symbol.

Click Modify and double-click the arrowhead of the symbol to open the framing elevation view.

Within a framing elevation view, you can alter the orientation of structural members.

[Chad Smith]

Thankyou.

I'm still having troubles adding a lean (rotating) to my columns though.
I still get the same alert as before.

[beegee]

Chad,

You actually want to rotate the column in the Z axis, not X or Y, correct ?

I think that only structural members designated as beams will tilt in the Z axis ( I'm not certain of this, but there has been some discussions about it in the past. Maybe the column needs to be an "architectural " not a structural column to work. I havn't tried that.)

As you can see in the attached image, I have tilted a beam in the framing elevation.

I forgot to mention before, that a framing elevations by design, associates itself to a column grid (this assumes you have placed your columns along a column grid - if not you'll need to place a grid before continuing). Once the elevation is placed, open the newly created elevation view. In this view you can now place your beam/ column at any desired angle.
The Framing elevation is fundamentally different from standard views in that it has a plane defined (the grid) on which elements can be placed.

Hope that helps.

[Steve_Stafford]

Sorry, Beegee has nicely picked up the slack I left behind with my reply...and I agree that you need to use a beam to do any tilting since columns seem to be predestined to stand tall even with the "always Vertical" property in the family un-checked. An alternative would be to extrude the profile of the column and tilt that...(in-place family)

If you carry this through and find a method that works for you, post back so we're all the wiser?

[Chad Smith]

Alright, I found that I couldn't get a 'Structural Column' to rotate off vertical, even with the 'Always Vertical' option un-checked.

So I had to use a 'Beam' that was attached to either a grid line or a reference plane. The 'Always Vertical' option didn't have to be un-checked for it to work either :D . I'm still not sure what the 'Always Vertical' option does yet, if anyone can shed some light on it. :idea:

By the looks of things, slicing the ends, or automatic cleanups to other objects hasn't been implemented yet. :(

Thanks for the help.

[beegee]

"Always vertical" means that a model is always orientated along the Z axis, perpendicular to X & Y. It can be overriden in some cases such as a beam using the rotation command in a framing view.

As an example, the model of a car would need "always vertical" unchecked if it was sitting on a sloping topo surface.

Join geometry is similar to "automatic cleanup", but will not always produce the desired result.

[Chad Smith]

"Always vertical" means that a model is always orientated along the Z axis, perpendicular to X & Y. It can be overriden in some cases such as a beam using the rotation command in a framing view.

Ah, excellent. :D :P

[k.armstrong]

Anything further on leaning a column?

[Mr Spot]

Yes, just create a family to do it...

[Revitator]

Thanks for posting the family, Mr Spot

I made a raked column family a couple of weeks ago, using a solid extrusion, but I couldn't position the profile accurately at the insertion point (see attached). It filled the need at the time.

I can see that you've made your sweep path in 3 sections. I guess you drew it in front elevation, with the main section snapped off the ref. plane intersections?

Just one question: How do you get the top and bottom parts of the sweep path to trim to the reference planes?

[ejburrell67787]

Just one question: How do you get the top and bottom parts of the sweep path to trim to the reference planes?You need to look again at Mr Spots family.... you will see the void objects that trim the top and bottom of the column to the reference planes. (By the way, if you set the angle of the rake to 60deg or a shallower angle you will see the voids no longer trim the column correctly - which illustrates how it is constructed nicely!)

EDIT: I had a look at your family also. You need to explore using reference lines to create angular relationships - if you change the angle of your column rake it all falls apart because the angle is set by a reference plane.

[Revitator]

Thanks, Elrond, I'll certainly look at Reference Lines. I know there's a lot to learn. My family was just a quick lash-up to get me out of a hole (and to begin to understand how to build families).

I saw the void objects, and understand how they trim the ends of the column to the reference planes. My question was about how the sweep path for the main sweep has been constructed. There are supplementary reference planes 1000mm above and below the Levels, and the end pieces of the sweep path stay trimmed to those planes, as you change the rake angle. I was interested to find out how to apply that kind of constraint?

<Edit> Ah, yes. Light begins to dawn. I hadn't realised that you could constrain lines that way. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Mr Spot's example doesn't use reference lines? The constraints are applied directly to the elements of the sweep path. The alternative being to construct reference lines, attach constraints to those, and then constrain the sweep path to the reference lines.</Edit>

[ejburrell67787]

My apologies Revitator, you are correct that Mr Spot's family has the angle paramater on the sweep path directly, I didn't look close enough myself!

yes you are right you can lock the end of a line to a reference plane.

[Revitator]

Please don't apologise, Elrond. Thank you for taking the time to answer my Newbie questions.

[Mr Spot]

Well i'm glad someone was here to explain how i made it... lol

Obviously with the 60º issue can easily be fixed by increasing the void size (i could've added a formula to calculate how big the void needed to be based on the angle but couldn't be bothered...) Plus, for my purposes the column is only ever rotated as far as 85º...

[ejburrell67787]

Well i'm glad someone was here to explain how i made it... lol

Obviously with the 60º issue can easily be fixed by increasing the void size (i could've added a formula to calculate how big the void needed to be based on the angle but couldn't be bothered...) Plus, for my purposes the column is only ever rotated as far as 85º...Yeah or you could probably lock the void to the column so that it moved along with it.