Checking over a colleague's drawing.

[arcadia_x27]

I'm looking for some opinions and procedures from other companies and practitioners in the CAD/construction industry on what their office practice's are regarding checking drawings. Specifically who is responsible for mistakes on a drawing. The person who produced the drawing or the person who checked it. Heres my situation:

I work for a Modular housing company as the Cad coordinator(I have a CAD manager's duties but without the "manager in my title so I don't fall into the manager pay bracket) The drawings we produce are 90% Architectural in nature with a smattering of electrical and plumbing as well. As is the practice in most AEC type firms I'm sure when one of the draftspersons finishes a drawing they hand it off to one of their peers or a senior technician to have that person check the drawing for any errors omissions etc. and then hands it back for the draftsperson to correct and produce the finished copies. It's always been understood at our company that this checking by another of a person's work is a courtesy of sorts as well as a backup to prevent and reduce errors but that ultimately that the person producing the drawing is responsible for their own work and they can't blame the checker if something is missed or a mistake on the drawing is made.
This is how I've always been taught and whats been practiced anywhere I've worked. You draw something and sign your name to it then you accept the responsibility for the lines you put on the paper.

So along comes management and says there too many mistakes being made, errors are not being caught when plans are checked. So in order to curb this problem were changing the rules the person who checks the drawing is as much to blame for not catching the mistake as the person who drew it is for drawing it. Am I wrong in thinking this train of thought is unacceptable? I don't feel that I should be held accountable for someone else's work (especially if I'm not their supervisor or manager of which I'm not anyone's) Its just not right. Well at least I think its not right. Now if I was an engineer and putting my stamp on these drawings that would be a different story. But I'm not stamping drawings, I'm just helping a colleague out by pointing out mistakes on a drawing

Am I way off here? I'd like to hear opinions from anyone else pro or con or whatever. Even if its whats the procedures or practices at your firm. Maybe my company is the exception and everyone else out there is the norm. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated

[David.Hoole]

Hi Jason

After 23 years in the construction industry (UK), in various disciplines, I've never worked in an environment where the checker was held responsible for errors.
If an individual is to be held responsible for another's work then they are, by definition, in a supervisory role and should be rewarded accordingly!

It's a simple fact that humans make mistakes, and a certain number just have to be accepted. If your management feels that too many errors are being made, I would suggest they need to review their training regime & production processes. I think this would be more effective than the punitive approach they are employing.

[thomas.stright]

We do the same here, Either Myself or the Department Manager checks all dwgs before they leave the department, But the Coordinator is responsible for their own work. we check for department standards and any issues that jump out at us as being wrong, But there is no way that either of us could know the details of every job.


We never have had a problem where a coordinator has not owned up to any mistakes. I guess we're lucky that way.

[JASONM30395]

Tell your boss to get off the drugs!

I've never heard of anyone being held responsible for someone else's drawings before, and unless your boss wants you to go through all the calcs and procedures a second time (thus wasting a lot of time and money) there's no way he should be holding you responsible for errors. The checking of drawings by a peer is a courtesy done to make sure the drawings are readable and so your co-workers (and the company) don't end up with egg on their face. In my office it's more often for things you don't see because your too "focused" on one thing and forget to step back and see the big picture, so you don't realize that something got done that you would never consciously do. In my office the onus is always on the person who's initials are in the "Designed by" box.

[robert.1.hall72202]

duplicate------------please ignore

[robert.1.hall72202]

Well why would you want to check drawings then?????
The drafter is ultimately responsible. Besides, in order to cut down on
drafting errors, it is always better to streamline the creation of drawings.
Look to cut out unnecessary callouts, duplicate information, and any place
the drafter is set up to possibly have a drawing error. That is what I have
done to improve productivity where I work......less drawings to create, less
chance of not updating dimensional callouts. Who cares who is at
fault? Ultimately the drawings need to be correct in the end....figure out
a way to get there rather than ridicule the connected parties.

[jaberwok]

I'm in mech eng, not architecture.

It used to be common practice to employ a checker - with a senior rank and salary to match.
That's what your company needs to do IF they are prepared to accept the additional cost and time penalties.
I guess that translates as "put up or shut up" - to them, not you.

[Maverick91]

I agree with the way you did things, before management got involved. I can check your work for consistency and adherence to standards, but I can't read your mind (my ex never understood that either). You should be responsible for your own work. How else will you (for example) grow to be a better drafter?

[michael.12445]

Holding a person in a position of "leadership" totally responsible for the actions of those who are led, regardless of any extenuating circumstances (i.e., you are not officially recognized as a manager, you have no control over whether the drafters actually complete your corrections, etc.), was the basic principle of how Nazi Germany was run, top to bottom. They called it the "Fuhrerprincip." Here in Southern California, we call it "The only fair is in Pomona" (where they hold the LA County Fair).

Michael Evans

[Alex Page]

Hmmmm.....my role is Cad manager for both our offices and Documentation manager for both our offices and also Document Co-ordinator for the office I work from (small office 10 people) AND also spend lots of time mice-on draughting (similar to hands-on (!))

As co-ordinator I fully accept PART responsible for drawings that go out of this office that are not up to scratch. Im not saying that if a spelling/ draughting error goes out I get in trouble, more that if there are really stupid details etc going out and it all goes wrong on site I will be reminded that I should be overseeing the draughting staff more (ie they will get in trouble!); instigate training/ buddy system, basically just helping them out.

Generally I feel pretty guilty when this happens and know that I have to make myself more approchable to the staff, even though it is their mistake.

I dont see this role as being unfair (like some other people) - its just part of being a fully-fledged team member, and not just a checker, any team member should be able to do that. And yes, I will get someone else to check my drawings!

[badams.84433]

Drawing error's are everyone's responsibility within any cad department. As is adhering to company standards. I suggest team building within the cad dept to eliminate as many errors as possible. Team leadership comes with rewards.

[tommy.huckabee]

Ultimately it is the drafters drawing mistakes and all. Checkers can go over the calcs but in order to check the entire drawing you pretty much have to redraw it and it takes time. We had the same problem and the way we solved it was this.
The drafter draws it then gets another drafter to check it, then it goes to the engineer so he can check it for workability then it goes to a standards checker then to a Glovia checker (inventory) to check for weights and quantities then out to the shop.It is usually a long process but if everyone does their best the amount of mistakes can be cut down on drastically.

Tommy

[Lemons]

In my experience, anyone who touches a drawing while it is being created or modified is responsible for all of it. I know it doesn't sound fair, but it produces the best possible product if everyone sees themselves as 100% accountable.

But, the designer is definitely responsible for design. Design problems should only come back to the designer.

Drafting errors should be minimal and the more people who check a drawing, the better it will be. Drafters who produce consistently poor quality work should be reprimanded/admonished, and if the quality doesn't improve they should be fired.

But whoever checks a drawing (first up the chain from drafting) is just as accountable as the person who draws it.

[drafting.33933]

As a CAD manager, I too am responsible for my drafting technicians' drawings, but so are they. Our setup is such that I do NOT check for CONTENT. My engineers do that. My technicians are supposed to check for spelling, dimensions and making sure that they've completed the "wishes" of the engineer/client. As mentioned by someone else, it is not possible to know everything about the design only if one re-works the calculations that's why we have this triple check system. I am the last one to view the plan set before it leave the office - a fresh pair of eyes. This doesn't mean that the plan set hasn't been reviewed until the end, I ask my tech.s to issue drawings to me every couple of days (even if the drawing is half done). I ask for drawings early to keep changes to a minimum, it is less painful on both of us. The purpose of the multiple responsibility, other than the obvious, is to ensure that the drawing(s) are as correct as can be. If a drawing has major errors, sent out and is reported to management (my superiors), they will review the initials on the drawing & checklist and be able to determine who drew, checked, and sent the drawing and deal with the necessary people - me first, then "it" flows down hill.

[kimlance]

In our office I am responsible for the appearance and clarity of the drawings. I also check for mistakes. But ultimately when the drawings are signed by the engineer he is responsible for them. That's why he's paid the big bucks.

[sid.fontenot550]

After a job is complete I have one of the drafters check the other drafters work. After that it comes to me for final approval and then handed to the engineer his quick check and signature.

[jguest82179]

In my experience, anyone who touches a drawing while it is being created or modified is responsible for all of it. I know it doesn't sound fair, but it produces the best possible product if everyone sees themselves as 100% accountable.

I also come from an Elec/Mech eng background, and this is how we handled it at the last place I worked. It was a global manufacturer, where the drawings we were producing were of the product itself and may have hundreds, if not thousands, of the item made from them. As such, mistakes on drawings were to be avoided at almost any cost during the design stage, as the costs of reworks or field repairs/replacement could easily be in the thousands of dollars per instance, then multiplied by the number of faulty/incorrect units that were shipped and you could be easily looking at multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.

By insisting on 100% accountability for all parties involved, the actual frequency of such an event was bought down to almost nil.

The way I see it, if your signature appears on that drawing to say that you've 'Checked' it then you are just as responsible for its content as the person who drew it in the first place. If your signature appears to say that you've 'Approved' it though, then it should be you who bears the brunt of any repercussions from the cost of reworks etc. i.e. if you approved it, and if someone must be fired for the stuff up, then that someone must be you.

After all, that approval says "Yes, this design is what we need. Yes, this drawing is correct. And yes, I am willing to stake my professional reputation on these two things"


However - that was based on a manufacturing operation. It may well be a very different story in an architectural application, I don't know - that's not my field.

If the 'Checking' that you are referring to does not require a signature on the drawing then you cannot be held in any way responsible in my view. For my situation, I prefer to think of it in terms of "Would it stand up in a court of law?" and without a signature then the answer is most likely 'No'.

[markkgilligan]

If we want to reduce mistakes everybody has to take responsibility for their work. The drafter is responsible for doing the work without mistakes. The checker is responsible for finding any errors and the Project Engineer is responsible for making sure that there are no errors. If you take the opinion that you are just providing a courtesy and are not responsible, you have the wrong attitude and will not likely be as vigilant.

The reality is that the Project Engineer (who may not have direct management oversight over the drafters) has to deal with the problems and is seen as responsible for the outcome of the project.

Having said that all of the firms I have been with understand that mistakes happen and if they are to hold somebody responsible it would be the Project Engineer. The reality is also that if the firm feels that the drafting function is not meeting expectations they will do something to change the situation. Most employers prefer to work with their current employees but if the work is not acceptable none of us have a guaranteed job.

Thus the proper attitude is that we are all responsible for reducing the number of errors. Once you have adopted this attitude if you believe management is inappropriately blaming you for mistakes, then find another employer.

[drafting.33933]

Your company, as well as mine, is just tired of having errors on plans which end up getting noticed at the wrong time - on the construction site. I believe that management does have a point.

My office has a three stage checking system - Draftsman, Engineer (designer), and Quality Assurance.

- Draftsman must check his/her work prior to submitting work to Engineer.
- Engineer checks to ensure that his/her work has been placed on the drawings correctly.
- Quality Assurance is "last line of defense", looks at dimensions, spelling, layouts. Quality
does keep a closer eye - reviewing plans at 50%, 80%, 99%, & 100% stages.

Everyone is taking responsibility, and our senior engineer then is comfortable sealing plans without performing his check with a magnifying glass. It is true teamwork, and we don't do the "well it's his drawing, his mistake and it's his fault" attitude.

[agrimm]

If the 'Checking' that you are referring to does not require a signature on the drawing then you cannot be held in any way responsible in my view. For my situation, I prefer to think of it in terms of "Would it stand up in a court of law?" and without a signature then the answer is most likely 'No'.

Enough said.

[rclayton]

Hmmmm.....my role is Cad manager for both our offices .... draughting

As co-ordinator I fully accept PART responsible for drawings that go out of this office that are not up to scratch. Im not saying that if a spelling/ draughting error goes out I get in trouble, .... draughting staff more ..... instigate training/ buddy system, .....


make myself more approchable ......

..... And yes, I will get someone else to check my drawings!

The perfect example of why someone cannot check their own work LOL A spelling and grammar checker as well a a thesaurus might be useful tools for you!

No offense intended, We do not use checkers and hold our designers responsible for their own work, but in our firm the designers are not legally liable for design errors, that is on the principle for the project and the one that holds the license. If they are too busy to check the work themselves then they are just setting themselves up for litigation on someone elses work....

[lswinea]

If you are looking for a way to assign blame for mistakes then the problem in your office is not mistakes.
In my office you will NEVER hear the term, "his fault" or "her fault".
If a mistake is found "WE" did it. And "WE" fix it.
And we find a way to make sure that mistake never happens again.
It's worked for me for 45 years, don't see any reason to stop now.
Try it.

[jaberwok]

..... but in our firm the designers are not legally liable for design errors, that is on the principle for the project and the one that holds the license. ....

Would that be principal?