How can I sketch a railing on an incline

[designviz]

Can I sketch a railing in an elevation or 3D view? I would like to add a railing to some modeled non-stair geometry. Is this possible? How do I go about doing it? Whenever, I try to set my workplane in elevation and the sketch a railing it always wants me to pick a view parallel to the plan. Am I missing something here?

[wmullett]

Sketch it in plan then choose what hosts your railing. It will conform to the slope of your host if it is uniform.

[Andre Carvalho]

You have to start the sketch in a plan view, but can switch to a 3D view after. But the main point here is find the proper host to the railing. Stairs, floors and ramps will host it. Depending on what category your "modeled non stair" geometry is, it won't even recognize as a host.

Andre Carvalho

[dbaldacchino]

You can also create an unhosted railing. It will be associated with the workplane. Each sketch line can be modified manually by selecting a sketch line and changing the properties that show up in the options bar. EX: instead of By Type, select Sloped or Flat. You can also specify offsets to get the slope you want.

[designviz]

Andre & dbaldacchino,

OK, when I first tried the Slope/Flat approach it just seemed to remain flat. I gave it a few more tries and not got that working, thank you. I guess the first time I was not neccessarily following through on all the places I need to adjust the Height Correction, Custom setting.

So it would appear the railing profile/sketch will always be in 2D plan, period. I can't sketch in an elevation or 3D can actual visually see the profile itself go up and down in elevation. I can only control the vertical aspect of the railing by keying in values for the Height Correction, Custom setting.

This is unfortunate, because it also seems to then assume the post always still go down to the original elevation, which in most cases would not be true. Now if they are passing through a monolithic slab of concrete no big deal, but if it were a more open system, this would still not suffice.

Therefore, if I do want my modeled non-stair to be seen as a hostable stair family/element, how do I make it so? What Family Category should I choose to have the application see my family as a stair? I do not see that as one of the options.

Furthermore, how do I choose a host for the railing? If I click on the railing I assumed I would have an option for host in the options bar, but I do not see that.

[wmullett]

You can add railings as free-standing components to levels, or attach them to hosts (such as floors, ramps, or stairs). That's it....

When you create or edit your railing, the set host option becomes available.

[designviz]

Thanks for the info, this is helping. How do I set a family to be considered a hostable Stair?

[cliff collins]

You have to sketch the path for railings in a plan view, but you can tile windows and have a 3D view on screen so you can see the result after closing the sketch. There are "hosted"
and "non-hosted" families in Revit--that takes a bit of getting used to. It makes sense that a railing gets hosted to a floor, stair or ramp, as these are the most typical real-world situations. You can always "break the rules" by making your own custom content, as a trade off for certain situations.

The railing tool is very powerful, but cumbersome tool similar to curtainwalls.
If used wisely, they can save you a lot of time and money. If you try to force the wrong
methodology on them, you will get frustrated and "bail on BIM" and revert to some old way
of doing it to "just get it out the door". It takes quite a while to see the balance of how and when to most properly use the tools.

I agree Revit forces you to model a bit differently than other apps--but you just have to adapt to it--get used to tiling plan, elevation and 3D views--and then it actually improves
awareness of what is happening in the model. I would not want to model a railing in a perspective view only ( like Sketchup users would )--but instead with a plan and elevation/section and 3D view all at once.

I know Archicad is a bit more fluid at this--and Revit is a bit "static"--but once you get used to it it really isn't an issue.

Try the tiled window approach--at least a plan and 3D view together.

cheers.....

[designviz]

This all well and good. I will never bail on BIM, it is a mindset I have had long before the term was developed... but I might on a particular app. However, my main question now, is simply how do I create a hosted family, in particular one that will work with railings? All the hosted condions mentioned thus far in this thread, stairs, floors and ramps are all system families. As such, it is my understanding I can't really create an external family of these types that can be loaded in. Am I correct on this, or is there someway to indicate an external family is a stair?

Perhaps to add some clarity I am attaching an annotated image, the dock stair family I currently have as well as the project file I am trying to do all this in. HTH, thanks.

[cliff collins]

You are on the right track.

1. The railings at the top/landing can be hosted by a Floor--just model a simple 4"
concrete slab floor and host the railings to it. Place concrete walls below the slab
to form the perimeter, instead of a huge mass of concrete.

2. The monolithic concrete stairs can host the sloped railings, as you have modeled.
Then "fill in " below them with concrete walls, which would get backfilled with gravel or fill.
Edit the profile of the walls to create the slope along the bottom of the stairs.

PS--Better check local code for horizontal railings---may not be allowed due to "ladder effect."

[wmullett]

Now you are getting there. Here is another clue... Ea portion of the railing sketch line is mono-slope. That is if the railing has to change slope, there needs to be a break in the line. You need a flat for the top of the stairs back to the turn on the dock platform. Put a break in that line just beyond the top riser and see what happens in 3D. You will learn where to break that line.

[designviz]

Thank you Cliff and VMullett, I think I can take it from here. I wish this all were easier, and you could actually sketch the railing path profile fully in truly in 3D, but I can work with this now.

[designviz]

OK I definately am getting closer, thanks to your's and Vmullet's help. I have one last bit of clean-up to resolve. It has to do with where my flat railings hosted to a floor meet up with my angled railings hosted to a stair and how to cleanly take care of this condition. Please refer to attached image.

[wmullett]

Do your railing as one sketch - not two.

[designviz]

I tried that, but then I was still having issues with the hosting. It appeared to me I could only choose one host per sketch. However, perhaps I am still missing some nuance here. I have attached just this piece in a model. Could I impose on you to take a look and modify and repost, and perhaps that will clarify it for me a bit.

I am not really sure why the angled railing looks so odd in this smaller model. It is fine in my full model.

Thanks in advance.

[dbaldacchino]

As stated previously, model railing with one sketch and not separate ones. See attached...I also changed the join condition to "Weld" instead.

[designviz]

My problem remains with properly connecting the rail posts to the top of the dock. If you look at the railing as you redid it from the side you will notice the posts are still hovering above the dock surface. This is what I am trying to resolve and why I tried creating the two separate sketches so I could host them independently. I tried adjusting the Height Correction in your model, but to no avail. Any other thoughts/recommendations?

This is quite frustrating and why I feel if Adesk would allow sketching this in 3D, and providing tools to controls where in 3D space I am drawing, it would help things considerably. I thought the idea was to reduce the guesswork involved in modeling, but this seems to be increasing it.

[cliff collins]

As said many times on this forum, the railing tools are well in need of improvement, and have not been changed/improved for several releases.
So-the current fact is you just can't create a railing sketch in a camera view--so, try tiling your views.

Have a Plan, Section/Elevation and 3D view open at the same time. This way you can see
the sketch lines in all views. Close the sketch, and see the results in 3D. This is a common workflow adjustment for Revit users coming from other apps.

It sounds like the posts are "hovering" above the slab--perhaps they need to be re-hosted?
Or does the railing have a constraint relationship to a level?

I have not looked at the revit file yet--but when i have time i'll take a look.

cheers.....

[wmullett]

Earlier I advised you ..."That is if the railing has to change slope, there needs to be a break in the line. You need a flat for the top of the stairs back to the turn on the dock platform. Put a break in that line just beyond the top riser and see what happens in 3D. You will learn where to break that line.".... where that break in the sketch line occurs determines the height of the flat rail.... Experiment and you will understand this.

[designviz]

OK, taking dbaldacchino's file, and making a few adjustments I got it looking better, but still have some nuances to work out, see attached image.

[twiceroadsfool]

You now have to spend some time moving the "joints" in the sketch lines, where you seperated them, and you will start to get a feel for how they clean up.

Designviz, have you seen this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVkCl0RtrV4

I bring it up in Jest, but sort of seriously too. Revit is fantastic, as youve no doubt seen. But it DOES have certain ways it needs certain tasks achieved. Its not Bentley, its not Sketchup, its not Max. We all want things to work a certain way, and sometimes they dont. The more you fight with it the more frustrated youre going to get. ;)

[designviz]

I am sorry but I spending too much time moving joints and getting no where. I can not move them in such a way to where I can keep the posts securely on the ground AND have the rail turn and cleanup properly at the top. See attached images.

If someone could please show me an actual example of how to achieve this, that would be great, and more useful than how this does or does not compare to other apps. I just want to know the process and have clean consistent geometry.

[cdatechguy]

Split your railing a bit from the rise/slope, go flat maybe an inch or two before your 90 degree turn for the rest of the landing...this will allow for a better transition from slope to flat...

EDIT: Oh....I found its actually easier to have two railings.....one for your handrail and then one for your guardrail.....this way you can stop the handrail at the top and not have to have it go all the way around the landing.

[designviz]

If you look at my images, you will see that I have done that. A 3/4" flat piece before the 90 degree turn works the best, but it still leaves some gap, and that is what I am trying to resolve.

Your Edit note though was interesting, and I thought you might be on to something, since if you notice, these problems, are not actually with the handrail itself, which seems to be behaving itself fairly well. The issue is rather with the top and bottom rails of the guardrail piece. However, I did try splitting the two railings as you mention, but the top and bottom rails of the Guardrail continue to be an issue.