How would you model this?

[barrie.sharp]

Im guessing that arch & columns on the entrance would just be in place but I have a few repeating details around the windows. Not sure if I should create window families or just put the masonary around inserted window. Also not sure if the masonary should be in place or hosted families. Plus, should I break up the details into lots of bits and add then together as nested or just copy the geometry within the family to allow joining?

Lots of questions I know. Just when Im getting the hang of it, I get a curve ball like this. I know I can do it but I want to do it well!

:beer:

[gbrowne]

I would create seperate families for each distinct type, but I would also ask: is it massively important to model this stuff in detail? Create an impression, sure, but without all the swirls and whatnot.

[barrie.sharp]

Quite right, swirls are not needed at all! I was really asking about how to break down the task. I guess I would create a lintel, column, base and capital families and cornice profile but will I still be able to join the geometry from the seperate families? What template do I need to start with?

[tomnewsom]

I would make the entire bay assembly a generic model family of 'Wall' Category. The actual casements should be generic model families of Window category (and should be Shared to enable tab-selecting of them for individual tagging in the project)

Otherwise, I would break it down pretty much like you say. Remember to make your profile, pedestal and capital families Shared so that a change in one will affect all instances - otherwise you'd have to go back through each bay type and re-import them.

I've done quite a bit of this sort of stuff for work on existing buildings, so feel free to ask more questions :)

[gbrowne]

Yea, good. Modelling for modelling sake is a quick road to crazy land..

Metric Generic Model family probably. You could use a wall based family, but not massively important. Also, parameters are not really applicable. Keep it simple really.

Best of luck with that, and make sure you post an image of your work!

[barrie.sharp]

Great advice guys. Still just getting to grips with the idea. Was going to insert the casements in the wall and then the masonary surrounds. Should I be modelling the casements in the family and if so, would I create a non hosted generic window to nest in there?

[tomnewsom]

Great advice guys. Still just getting to grips with the idea. Was going to insert the casements in the wall and then the masonary surrounds. Should I be modelling the casements in the family and if so, would I create a non hosted generic window to nest in there?
I would be wary of hosting the casements in a regular wall, and trying to get the cornices, pedestals etc. to also host to the same wall. IME, that's a recipe for errors and headaches as stuff gets out of alignment or refuses to cut/join.

A non-hosted window family is exactly what I'd do in this situation.

HOWEVER

I bet the project involves replacing the casements and keeping the surrounds? Because that complicates things a bit - how to phase the demolition?

I'll have to have a think - and play - to figure that out!

[tomnewsom]

I would be wary of hosting the casements in a regular wall, and trying to get the cornices, pedestals etc. to also host to the same wall. IME, that's a recipe for errors and headaches as stuff gets out of alignment or refuses to cut/join.

A non-hosted window family is exactly what I'd do in this situation.

HOWEVER

I bet the project involves replacing the casements and keeping the surrounds? Because that complicates things a bit - how to phase the demolition?

I'll have to have a think - and play - to figure that out!
Also, the mix of embedded/pillastered capitals looks a little strange! I wonder what the original design was?

[barrie.sharp]

Thanks muchly. I'm starting to get it. Alot of this work really is custom. I'm used to looking for out of the box solutions but I need to step it up a notch to learn. I'm creating the arch opening as a generic wall based family. I've created my opening and now I'm putting in the solids around it. Is that the right Idea?

[gbrowne]

For the arch you could just "Edit Profile".

For the mouldings, I was just thinking about "sticking" them onto the wall, with the windows themselves hosted in the actual wall behind it.

Possibly a lazy option. I defer to tomnewsom who has been there before it seems. :-)

[tomnewsom]

For the arch you could just "Edit Profile".

For the mouldings, I was just thinking about "sticking" them onto the wall, with the windows themselves hosted in the actual wall behind it.

Possibly a lazy option. I defer to tomnewsom who has been there before it seems. :-)
This is how I used to do it, but then you end up having to juggle multiple object/ families around to get the desired effect. Want to change the window? ok. now change the upper surround family, ok, now change the lower surround family. And so on :)

Also, making the cornice sweeps return 'into' the window openings is Not Fun.

[tomnewsom]

This is how I used to do it, but then you end up having to juggle multiple object/ families around to get the desired effect. Want to change the window? ok. now change the upper surround family, ok, now change the lower surround family. And so on :)

Also, making the cornice sweeps return 'into' the window openings is Not Fun.
Ok, I've had a little think about this. Here's how I'd make these windows.

The casements themselves are regular hosted window families. Their exterior face is flush with the exterior face of their host wall.

The stone part of the external wall is a generic model family - it can be split into its component parts however you see fit. Build each one as a seperate model, although there's a little scope for different widths of simple surrounds. They are dumb objects, nothing more. No hosting in/on a wall.

Place the Stone Surrround family in the project in the correct place. Walls around it should extend to its edge, but not cross into it.

Draw the host walls for the casements inside the Surround family.

Host the casements in these "half-thick" walls (which will probably just be plaster/stud)

As is often the case with revit, this closely matches the original construction, where the stone would be erected first, then the windows and internal finish would be built from the inside.

This also allows good phasing control in the model, as you can Demo the existing finish/lining and casements, whilst leaving the Stone Surrounds intact (as I'm sure the planning permission requires you to!)

[gbrowne]

Oh, no doubt. I guess it depends on if the windows/exterior stuff is getting changed at all. If the job is a lean-to extension out the back, then it won't hurt so much. Perhaps then drafting lines would suffice on the elevations for existing unaltered detail.

The frightener with a new user to Revit is thinking erroniously that they have to model everything. Urghh.. And all the ways of making what would be a straightforward task in 2D CAD a nightmare in 3D Revit.

Forgive me if I am making assumptions and don't want to poo poo your solution, which clearly you have worked long and hard at. :-)

[eviele]

Remember to make your profile, pedestal and capital families Shared so that a change in one will affect all instances - otherwise you'd have to go back through each bay type and re-import them.


...and now I know what that shared checkbox means.
Thanks Tom!

[tomnewsom]

Well, it might be a bit over the top for a regular Victorian terrace, but I do this sort of thing for central london listed (USA trans: protected? scheduled?) buildings. You have to model that stuff 1:1

[barrie.sharp]

Wow. Great solution to phasing. I will try to takeall of this on board.

This is for planning and it is just window replacements so phasing is in the mix. I could have drafted this in 2D with greater ease but in this instance I saw it as an oppurtunity. Once I've learned to do it, I probably won't ever again but I want that choice to be practical and not due to inexperience. I will try my best and post results. Meanwhile, I will most likely have more questions.

[tomnewsom]

I've just noticed there isn't a 'Shared' checkbox for Profile Families.... Could have sworn I've done this before - using a common profile in multiple families with easy updating.

[barrie.sharp]

Ok. Entrance was very custom so I didn't do anything fancy. I feel very much out of my depth so I kept it simple. I only need it for ele's and the modelling was an excercise more than anything. I think I'm getting the idea anyway. Seems to be taking me a long time.

I have attached my progress

[tomnewsom]

Looking pretty good to me. I'll give a few tips:

The circular columns, base, pillar and capital, are probably more convenient to draw as Revolves, rather than seperate Extrusions and Sweeps. You get a single solid object that way, with no unconfortable voids behind the Sweeps.

The way you've handled the returns on the profile that follows the arch is clever, but it's actually possible to do this all as one sweep. By using the 'pick path' option instead of sketching it, you can make a sweep follow lines in multiple planes. the outer brick arch has the right shape to do this with. This might be a bit overkill for your entrance though, plus the end returns don't finish neatly at the wall (impossible to do with a 'zero' length return)

I've modified your family so you can see these changes.

But then revit 2010 crashed without letting me save >_<
curse you revit 2010!

Anyway, this is a good model - have you checked what happens when you modify the wall thickness? That can sometimes throw up problems. Make sure objects are drawn on the appropriate reference plane!

[barrie.sharp]

have you checked what happens when you modify the wall thickness? That can sometimes throw up problems. Make sure objects are drawn on the appropriate reference plane!

Thanks for the comments. Now I get why pick path exists! I did have a little sensitivity to the wall thickness but wasn't overly fussed this this round because it's a one off. It was good to explore the concepts though. Shame about the crash. Im making the stone surrounds right now. Lintel was easy. Compositing will be trickier.

[barrie.sharp]

Im starting to lose the plot and Im rushing a bit so it's a bit slack but also it's because I don't really know the best ways to go about it. Here is my progress so far which is need desperate need of critique so I can get back on track.

Clicky the attached...

[barrie.sharp]

This is what I eventually came up with everyones guidance. I think I've got the hang of it and having done it, would do it better next time. It felt fiddley but not sure if that's normal. I would certainly appreciate further comment on the good, the bad and the ugly.

Cheers