Scheduling Curtain Wall Doors

[jcoe]

Here is what we are running into:

When we schedule our typical double doors (punched openings), I have the schedule set up to read 2 3'-0" 7'-0" where each value is a separate column. Conventionally this might have read as (2) 3'-0" x 7'-0". When our double doors for storefronts show up in the schedule it reads as 2 6'-0" 7'-0". I realize the size of the opening is driven by the clear distance between mullions, but this has raised the concern of some project managers. They interpret this as the contractor is to provide (2) 6' x 7' door leafs for that opening and I tend to agree. What I have been suggesting is that we replace the 2 with a dash or an asterisk and provide a note in the remarks column to clarify these conditions.

Then I get, "why does Revit have to be so difficult"; "we never had these problems in AutoCAD;" "I thought Revit was supposed to make this easier"; blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

How are others scheduling their storefront/ curtain wall doors?

Thanks

[twiceroadsfool]

We schedule Total Width, Panel 1 Width, and Panel 2 Width. That way we can have doors with uneven panels.

With CW doors, you cant do this, since you cant have hard width constraints in the CW family. so they have a Total Width, then a blank P1W and P2W, and they get Comments to see the "Door Type" which will reflect that the 6'0 is actually a double curtain wall door.

And then i tell PM's to get off the bus if they cant take the bad with all the good Revit gives them. :)

[cdatechguy]

We show the width and height.....but in the panel type we show PR for Pair...

So a curtain wall door could show up as 6' - 8" wide by 7'-0" high and PR FG for the panel types for example....

All of our regular double doors will show up as the inside frame size as well.....thus we don't to say 2 - 3'-0"x7'-0" doors on the schedule...it would show up as 6'-0" x 7'-0"

[greg.mcdowell]

What do contractors think of this? It's pretty different from what I'm used to seeing but I like the consistency. Right now we're doing a mixture and I'm dissatisfied to say the least.

[cdatechguy]

Whose method?

So far the contractors we have been working with like it.....way better than when we used to say 3'-0" x 7'-0" and a note saying 2 Pair 3'-0" doors....

[cj_follmer]

we replace the panel with a wall and insert a frameless door into the wall. This allows our schedule to still read correctly. Not saying it's a perfect solution but has worked well on 3 projects and eliminates the need for a note saying this is a pair of doors.

[twiceroadsfool]

we replace the panel with a wall and insert a frameless door into the wall. This allows our schedule to still read correctly. Not saying it's a perfect solution but has worked well on 3 projects and eliminates the need for a note saying this is a pair of doors.

Ive heard of that solution as well, and im all for it... IF you can get it to read correctly in Plan and Elevation. Getting the wall the right size so that it doesnt show up, etc.

[cdatechguy]

I took the time to create a "door" panel...It uses the family type parameter to switch in between different panel types as well as populating our door schedule...

[twiceroadsfool]

I took the time to create a "door" panel...It uses the family type parameter to switch in between different panel types as well as populating our door schedule...

Right, those are what most of us are using. The issue is, if you have a "Double CW Door" Panel, which a lot of us have, you cant constrain or otherwise dimension the actual panel widths... Since CW panel widths are dictated by Curtain Grids and are all instances.



But thats what we do as well.

[cdatechguy]

Ok....I see where your getting at....you just need to know to add whatever the distance you need to the curtain grid lines to make the door work the way you want to.....I usually lock the grids with a dimension once in place. So if my mullions are 2" wide and I want 6' wide doors then the grids would lock at 6'-2".

What I am saying about my door panel, its a curtain wall panel converted into a door.....so it actually shows up as Curtain Panels for a family category, but still populates the door schedule.

I used to use actual door panels from the door category.....but this way works better....I have a double version of the same thing and never have any issues dimensioning them to the correct sizes.

[twiceroadsfool]

Ok....I see where your getting at....you just need to know to add whatever the distance you need to the curtain grid lines to make the door work the way you want to.....I usually lock the grids with a dimension once in place. So if my mullions are 2" wide and I want 6' wide doors then the grids would lock at 6'-2".

What I am saying about my door panel, its a curtain wall panel converted into a door.....so it actually shows up as Curtain Panels for a family category, but still populates the door schedule.

I used to use actual door panels from the door category.....but this way works better....I have a double version of the same thing and never have any issues dimensioning them to the correct sizes.

No, youre missing what were after. In addition to the regular "Overall Width" parameter, many of us have other parameters in our REGULAR doors, such as "Panel 1," or "Half Width" for situations where its a double panel door. In CW Panel "Doors" (Which they even give you a Family Template for) you cant do that. Because then youd be putting in a constraint for something that is instance by instance based, and it wont let you.

Actually, i suppose ive never tried with them as instance parameters, but then (if it worked) you would have to manually make sure they added up to the correct width, since you can never tie them to the Curtain Panel width. So on the whole it wouldnt be a winner of a situation for me. To that end i might as well type the comment in the way i do now.

[Scott Womack]

I basically agree with Aaron's points.

I think the way to approach this is to use the total width, and then provide a calculated parameter to divide this eiter in two, or possible, (with an adiitional parameter, for unequal panels) Then you cn add shared parameters, set them equal to the calculated parameters, and schedule the individual panels. If this is done in in ALL families correctly, then you can build the door schedule to appear any way you want. Plus, this would allow the parameters to be instanced in the curtainwall, and type in the doors, etc., but appear in the same column in a door schedule. Possibly, use a type based Yes/No for it being a pair. Then a parameter in the schedule can check for this, and if it is true, place the PR in another column.

Personnally, we take the approach that we just schedule the width as a hole. Then we have a door panel type parameter (and a door panel legend). The legen shows the flush single door as say, an "A" type. Then the Pair of Flush doors is an A1, or A2 if you like. This tells the bidders that for a 6'-0" door opening, they have to supply two door panels of an equal (or unequal as another type) for that opening. No fuss, no muss, and the contractors have not questioned it. I do alot of work in the public bid - multiple prime world, and those bidders don't question it.

The point is, if the parameters are thought out, and then placed into the families, alot of automated functions/calculations can be done in schedules. It's not that Revit is incapable of things, its that we as Architects (and engineers) get caught up in doing things in a one directional process. We need to learn as a group to think outside the normal process more.

[cdatechguy]

Would be nice to get that width parameter in a curtain wall door.....I agree with that.....

But it is possible to put in the instance parameter for at least one door..... We usually put those dimensions in the remarks column anyway....but you are correct that you have to make sure they add up properly manually....

[amorie]

Our strategy is to add a field in our schedule titled "Leaf Width", which is a calculated parameter. We also added a shared parameter called "Leaf Quantity", which is enabled for doors. The curtain panels in the template are defined by door type, as single or double doors, and in each style the "Leaf Quantity" parameter is defined (1 or 2). This also requires that in all our door families, we have to define the value for the Leaf Quantity for the system to work.

We changed the label for the "Width" field in the schedule to read "Opening Width" Our columns in the door schedule read, from left to right, Leaf Quantity, Leaf Width, Opening Width, and Height.

The formula for "Leaf Width" is "if(Leaf Quantity = 0, Width, Width / Leaf Quantity)". This gives us accurate info for number of door panels, size of individual door panel, and overall opening width. However, this approach doesn't work for door panels of unequal width in the same opening, which we do our best to avoid.

[twiceroadsfool]

The formula for "Leaf Width" is "if(Leaf Quantity = 0, Width, Width / Leaf Quantity)". This gives us accurate info for number of door panels, size of individual door panel, and overall opening width. However, this approach doesn't work for door panels of unequal width in the same opening, which we do our best to avoid.

Thats why we go with the P1W and the P2W as parameters, which are tied to the Panels which are seperate nested families. We do a lot of work that has uneven door panels in them. i think i have 4 projects going right now with uneven door panels in them by design.

It works great, and you dont have to manually enter in any quantities or widths. Just takes a little more time to set up.

[jcoe]

The formula for "Leaf Width" is "if(Leaf Quantity = 0, Width, Width / Leaf Quantity)". This gives us accurate info for number of door panels, size of individual door panel, and overall opening width. However, this approach doesn't work for door panels of unequal width in the same opening, which we do our best to avoid.

I tried using the formula this morning and keep getting "improper use of Boolean expression." My formula reads "if(Number of Leafs=0, Width, Width/Number of Leafs) - slightly different due to the parameters I already had in place.