model lines as 2d geometry in a family

[ray.205827]

The flange family in the autodesk tutorial is problematic from a number of angles. (I'm pretty sure I got all the operator error bugs out of the family in the end). The model lines used to depict the 2d geometry do not behave properly in model and coarse detail. In creating the family, equality constraints are used to ensure the length of the model line protrudes te same distance either side of the pipe/flange long axis, but this isn't workingI need to understand how these model lines behave in relation to the dimensions I have applied to them. I would also like to be able to use a different origin for the family, such that the placement on the end of a pipe offsets the origin of the flange 9/16" from the end of the pipe al la real world. This way I can place a mating flange on the first flange and rotate it 180 degrees and have a 1/8" gasket space or even place a gasket element in between the faces. It looks like the procedure for this is described in the Families Guide on pages 20 and 21. Would I be on the right track in using a non-hosted template as in the tutorial, or would it make more sense to have both a non-hosted and a hosted version?
At first I had thought that the family was flawed because I could not get the nominal diameter (type) parameter to be changed using instance properties. However when I switched to type parameter dialog, it worked flawlessly. I love it when a plan comes together! (He's a likeable enough guy, but the ad wears a bit thin after so many viewings)
Hope I'm not asking too much. The planets have to come into alignment once in a while.

[ray.205827]

The saga continues:
I have at last identified the bugs in the Revit tutorial. There were 2. The first concerned the equality constraints on the model lines - This concept wasn't working in this family. Maybe it works in others, I don't know. All I know is when I used separate dimensional constraints with labels and parameters based on the radius used for the 3d geometry, they work the way they're supposed to. The second problem was that the model lines were not locked to the reference planes at the time of creation.
Here's my problem though. Yes the family works totally, but because it is built with the nominal pipe diameter as a type parameter, you can only have one size in a model. If you change the type parameter value, they all update. So my next step is to try and rebuild the family with the all the parameters as instance.
I did have one other issue. The primary connector location in the tutorial was in the wrong location. In the real world, the pipe goes all the way into the flange to within 1/2" of the face. Problem solved by adding a sub category and an extra extrusion and reference plane and turning off visibility.
When that was all done I realised this puppy looked pretty dumb with no void in it, so I read up on joining geometry , added an extrusion for the hole and hit the void toggle in the type parameters dialog and voila! I also duplicated the family, reassigned the primary connector to the face and added a gasket for a mating flange. Next build is a nozzle family.
Last question: When I look at the scale of the model lines at model or coarse detail level, in an eighth scale view, the lines are humungous. At 6"=1' the model lines are twice the scale they should be, at 3"=1', four times etc etc. I would have expected them to draw per the values in te lookup table since the overall length dimesion was labeled to a parameter referencing the lookup table. Sure enough, when I go back into the family editor and flex the model lines, they scale correctly. So then in the project, what is the mechanism that is messing with the sclae?What's going on here? Back to the drawing board! "They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast"

Well, changing the one type parameter to instance worked ok. I was able to make a nozzle family using a type catalog. All the sizes except 2 1/2" worked. This one showed the flange ok but no nozzle. Weird.

[jmqrsq]

hello. i am new to MEP and with no previous Mechanical engineering experience I have been trying to figure out how these Autodesk fittings work so I could create a Blind flange. I have grabbed your here (thanks!) and was wondering if I need the Copy of Generic 150 psi Slip On Flange.csv you sepecify in the Lookup table for it to size properly based on my pipe sizings? if so could you attach it? thanks for the effort. It helps us newbies =)

Jaysyn

[jmqrsq]

also I have noticed that the connectors are way above the geometry. Why is that? IO have another family I created that has this same problem. I have redone this family several times and the connector is way below its geometry. any ideas?