Revit Frustrations

[ruthellenwilliams]

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=100857&highlight=best+laptop+computer+for+revit

I came across this relatively old thread in the Revit MEP section while searching for user recommendations to help me select a new laptop computer to run Revit Architecture. The frustration and anger expressed with the difficulties faced in the realities of implementing Revit are all too familiar.

Revit is an extremely complex program, but that is never emphasized by the sales people. We should not be surprised that they show us exciting little demos during which they accomplish amazing things with the click of a mouse. They are trying to sell us the software! (“But wait, if you buy today, you will also receive a Designer Snuggie at no extra cost!”)

The Autodesk Reseller classroom-style training, which is not cheap, is IMHO grossly inadequate. Family creation is presented as an “advanced” function! In fact, nobody ever learned any software (except maybe Quicken) by taking a four-day or four-week class, but the resellers continue to imply that that is all it takes to become a successful Revit user.

Successful implementation of Revit requires a lot of up-front planning and setup. The more users to be involved and the larger the project to be produced, the more up-front time will be required. Aside from the program bugs and just plain wrong stuff, many problems are caused by a lack of office standard files and procedures. Without overall and specific direction, users who are under the gun to complete a project will do things in whatever way they can figure out, and the consequences of doing the wrong thing can be very far-reaching in a program as complex as Revit.

Other problems are a result of the “bosses” not understanding the program. It understandably drives them crazy to see an incorrect wall join in a floor plan print, but their directive to “just make it look right” often leads the creative new user to spend way too much time wreaking havoc on the model and views. Coming up with reasonable and standard ways to deal with these graphic issues is another up-front requirement.

Another thing, it’s not necessary to abandon Autocad in order to implement Revit. In fact, they work well together and, with the aforementioned good standards and procedures in place, you can continue to produce much of the 2D content of the document set with Autocad while you train users on Revit.

And, by the way, the Revit “expert” who is not currently and actively involved in your discipline is doomed to be a disappointment. Knowing how to run the program is a far cry from knowing how to use it in conjunction with running an architecture or an engineering project, not to mention knowing how to run such a project in the ways your specific office works.

Revit will come along, but it won’t be easy.

[Alan aka cadalot]

Ruth

I don't know if you know but on visiting your blog My McAfee Site Advisor pops up with 1/2 doz messages saying

" When we tested this site we found downloads that some people consider adware spyware or other potentally unwanted programs....."

Alan

[ruthellenwilliams]

No, I didn't know that! Thanks for the info - now I just have to figure out why McAfee is saying that. Downloads on the site are all actually posted on Scribd - that must be it. Why is McAfee doing this to me?

[MRV]

No popups on my end, but I don't have (and wouldn't use) McAfee...

[Alan aka cadalot]

I'm not a fan but It's supplied by my ISP as part of the contract!

[sthedens]

Implementing Revit is like trying to assemble a swim team. You know who you want on the team. You want those who have a good TAR (Technology Absorption Rate), know how buildings go together, can identify good design and understand project milestones. This is your A-Team. Word gets around that the SWIM (BIM) team is being assembled. And way too many people show up at the pool. And before you can get any ground rules established, people just start jumping in. Some are swimming laps with no two people doing the same stroke, others try syncronized swimming, others are doing cannonballs, still more are just splashing each other in the shallow end. There's even a few testing the water with their toes while wearing duckie inflatables around their waist. A lifeguard is no where to be found. The people who have the talent to make this a great team are hampered by constant interference, and get frustrated.

"Isn't this great!" "Look at me! I'm bimming! I'm bimming!" "This is so much better than the kiddie pool." "Jump in, it's fun!"

This is not a slam against Revit, just one example of how frustrating it can be to implement.

[gwnelson]

Like herding cats

[timothy.bungert]

Implementing Revit is like trying to assemble a swim team. You know who you want on the team. You want those who have a good TAR (Technology Absorption Rate), know how buildings go together, can identify good design and understand project milestones. This is your A-Team. Word gets around that the SWIM (BIM) team is being assembled. And way too many people show up at the pool. And before you can get any ground rules established, people just start jumping in. Some are swimming laps with no two people doing the same stroke, others try syncronized swimming, others are doing cannonballs, still more are just splashing each other in the shallow end. There's even a few testing the water with their toes while wearing duckie inflatables around their waist. A lifeguard is no where to be found. The people who have the talent to make this a great team are hampered by constant interference, and get frustrated.

"Isn't this great!" "Look at me! I'm bimming! I'm bimming!" "This is so much better than the kiddie pool." "Jump in, it's fun!"

This is not a slam against Revit, just one example of how frustrating it can be to implement.


Hands down the best analogy for revit implementation I have ever heard. And damn funny too!

[sbrown]

No offense to re-sellers, but if you haven't produced a set of documents in revit you can't teach it. You can teach the commands and tools from canned presentations but until you use it for real work any training you do is only for big picture knowledge of what revit can do.

[twiceroadsfool]

115% agreed Scott.

Having said that, implementing Revit is like implementing ANY new tool in a real world office. After two days of AutoCAD training you new how to draw lines and flip between model and paperspace, but then you were left having to figure out how to make it work YOUR way, or in a way you were happy with. Revits no different.

There is training to get moving in the software, and getting the office ready to use it. Resellers and 3 day seminars can do the first, but they rarely make much progress accomplishing the second. And while we may want to fault salespeople and complex software, ultimately that one is on us. We have to know what were getting in to before we jump.

[BDR_Architect]

No offense to re-sellers, but if you haven't produced a set of documents in revit you can't teach it. You can teach the commands and tools from canned presentations but until you use it for real work any training you do is only for big picture knowledge of what revit can do.

I agree completely. I guess we're pretty lucky, the trainers from our reseller are ALL licensed architects (or engineers for SE & MEP) that have experience from some pretty good firms. I think that is the model that all resellers should use. We tried a different one before and they had a bunch of computer-savvy people but they didn't know squat when it came to putting actual documents together. Didn't help much at all.

[nsinha73]

Revit is an extremely complex program
If you have already made up your mind that it is....then yes it is. We have novices in Revit in my office....and they are storming with CDs within 6 months.



Family creation is presented as an “advanced” function!
True, but that depends of how complex YOU want to get. Simple 2D Editing represent All Views Works perfect. But if you want to go Full 3D, then thats another story!



Aside from the program bugs and just plain wrong stuff, many problems are caused by a lack of office standard files and procedures. Without overall and specific direction, users who are under the gun to complete a project will do things in whatever way they can figure out, and the consequences of doing the wrong thing can be very far-reaching in a program as complex as Revit.

This is where this mentality comes "I just wanna draft" or "Just get this done"
I have been there. When one does not know how to use the software, nothing but complains and excuses arise. When we implemented Revit, we made sure there was ONE FRONT GUY....who would master it and lead in implementation. It worked. I am still sometimes called over to help....Only takes a second to explain.



Other problems are a result of the “bosses” not understanding the program. It understandably drives them crazy to see an incorrect wall join in a floor plan print, but their directive to “just make it look right” often leads the creative new user to spend way too much time wreaking havoc on the model and views. Coming up with reasonable and standard ways to deal with these graphic issues is another up-front requirement.

Only Upfront thing to do is "LEARN" and know how revit works.....If we want to reap the benefits of Revit.....Learn....We ARE reaping the benefits now.



Another thing, it’s not necessary to abandon Autocad in order to implement Revit.

Acceptable. We are at a position that we do not actually want to see ANY of the thousand Autocad lines come into Revit. Thats the protocol. The Cleaner your Revit Project is...its nicer to work on. :-)



And, by the way, the Revit “expert” who is not currently and actively involved in your discipline is doomed to be a disappointment. Knowing how to run the program is a far cry from knowing how to use it in conjunction with running an architecture or an engineering project, not to mention knowing how to run such a project in the ways your specific office works.

I don't know how you are doing it...but we have entirely customized Revit to Match our Office Standards. And we have adopted many features of Revit by dropping few Office Graphic standards. One of them is Keynotes. And Tagging (See my sample video).



Revit will come along, but it won’t be easy.
Revit HAS come along...and now the AEC industry is making sure what ever products they have, be converted to BIM.....

Happy Modeling :-D

[nsinha73]

Sorry ...Sample Video

[cphubb]

I agree completely. I guess we're pretty lucky, the trainers from our reseller are ALL licensed architects (or engineers for SE & MEP) that have experience from some pretty good firms. I think that is the model that all resellers should use. We tried a different one before and they had a bunch of computer-savvy people but they didn't know squat when it came to putting actual documents together. Didn't help much at all.

Yes but when was the last time they actually created a building set? Our resellers here all WERE architects in a past life. Now they just tell us that Worksets are "Scary and dangerous" and should not be used.

Seriously,

People need to start working with principals and project managers so they understand the benefits and pitfalls of BIM. There are a number of consultants and even some resellers that offer these programs. You should implement BIM from the top down not the bottom up. We are currently offering this type of training in Seattle.

Beyond the basic training on how to use BIM you really need to train users on a real project so there is incentive to actually learn and utilize the features of the program. Many users take the training, do a tutorial or fake project and do fine. They then choke when they have to produce a building under pressure and with items that are not quite what the tutorial setup. I am analogizing this to our Chemistry Lab in High School and a real Chemistry experiment to discover a new polymer. I got an A in chemistry but am nowhere near qualified to actually do chemistry.

[BDR_Architect]

Yes but when was the last time they actually created a building set? Our resellers here all WERE architects in a past life. Now they just tell us that Worksets are "Scary and dangerous" and should not be used.

Actually, they continue to do work now. They either contract themselves out to firms occasionally or they team with firms on large projects. Sort of a hands-on training. They do it so that their training is very relavant.



Seriously,

People need to start working with principals and project managers so they understand the benefits and pitfalls of BIM. There are a number of consultants and even some resellers that offer these programs. You should implement BIM from the top down not the bottom up. We are currently offering this type of training in Seattle.

I agree totally. We have done similar training and it has helped them understand much more what we're dealing with here. It sort of puts us all on the same page.... or at least it makes them a little more comfortable.