Clash Reporting - Best Practices?

[crawfords]

I'm wondering what the conventional wisdom is on how to report the results of clash testing in a format that can be widely distributed amongst subs, consultants, owners, etc.

This hearkens back to the pissing and moaning I did earlier about resetting the clash results whenever you hide/show objects in the file (workaround: change transparency instead of turning objects on & off).

The problem is this: I'm working on a model with 6 levels, and on each level, there are 15 different clash tests that I run. So I'm deaing with about 85 different tests I need to report out.

Each clash test had different "visibility settings" (i.e. tranparency of non-relevant groups turned to 100%). Upon completion of each test, I create an HTML file of the results and save viewpoints. I edit the saved clash viewpoints by toggling on the Override Material checkbox in the Edit dialog. I also save a NWD version of the file I'm working in.

Now, the tricky part invovles getting the HTML files to the interested parties, since I can't count on everyone being tech-savvy enough to download, install & operate the Freedom viewer. I have a number of basic problems with the HTML route:

1) I now have 85 different HTML files to coordinate. If I try to write 1 clash report for the entire level, the saved viewpoints do not have the proper "visibility settings" and most of them are therefore useless. Is there a way to combine these views while retaining the saved clash viewpoint settings?

2) The HTML files are clunky to use & I have to create ZIP files with the associated image files for each test. Opening the HTML in PDF format results in weird page breaks and doing likewise in MS Word has formatting issues. What is the best way to generate an easily portable/printable version of the clash results?

3) The HTML files path the images in an absolute path. When the HTML file & the image files are zipped up and moved, they HTML file can't find the images - unless, of course, I manually edit the HTML code, which is a drag.

OK, so this is still at heart a workflow issue. Still, it seems like the clash reporting process is very, very clunky & time-consuming. Your collective advice on how I can improve this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Crawford

[RobertB]

The best-run clash detections I've seen did not need to bother with separate level-by-level clash runs since each level was a separate model name already. So we only had to run Mech vs. Arch once for the whole building. This is because the clashing items' level could be determined by its model name.

Your "interested parties" should have the basic compentency to download and use Freedom. That is part of the skill set needed for a BIM project and if they asked for a BIM project it is their responsibility to deal with the added skills.


There is a separate report type that saves the viewpoints of each clash and these saved viewpoints are usable by Freedom.
Why overengineer the HTML report? It is pretty easy to just click on the HTML file and view it in the web browser. I question the validity of your approach to "simplify" the HTML report.
I haven't seen this issue before, but I haven't run an HTML report in 2010 yet.

[dgorsman]

In theory, you could try applying an XSL transform to the HTML report, but as noted above that seems more work than it saves. Not sure about the image pathing being absolute - our 2009-generated reports don't specify a path at all, so the image files must be in the same folder as the HTML file. Could you post an HTML fragment from one of your clash reports?

[crawfords]

Could you post an HTML fragment from one of your clash reports?


Please see attached. The highlighted text must be deleted for the HTML to be "portable" & read the relative location of the image files.

-Crawford

[dgorsman]

Well, call me a pogo stick - I'm actually hopping up and down at seeing that. Its most inconvenient to have a fully qualified path name in there. Immediate recommendation: submit a feature request for HTML settings of full, relative, or no pathing on images when reports are generated.

Given that its a text file, there are a number of options available for fixing multiple files.

[cjehly]

I typically print all of the HTML clash reports to a multi-page PDF for distribution. Saves a lot of hassle for contractors and general file organization.

[dfrancis]

We do one floor at a time and sometimes split the building if it large and has a logical break.
We do not post reports, we give everyone a dated NWD file with viewports. If they have Freedom they use the viewports, if they have manage they see the whole batch clash results. Utilizing Manage 2010 we use the groups to identify and groups clashes during our meetings. We run a compact before each meeting to eliminate the resolved clashes.
We only run trade vs steel and trade vs arch. then a MEP vs MEP. This minimizes the batch clash reports.
We fooled around with the HTML reports and XML, but it is an old version and can't utilize CSS Style sheets for page breaks, so more hassle than it was worth.
Final NWF is saved to CD and all trades sign along with titlblock drawings.
I see a lot of people waste a lot of time tracking each individual clash versus unsing the select filter and groups to package these items

[crawfords]

I typically print all of the HTML clash reports to a multi-page PDF for distribution. Saves a lot of hassle for contractors and general file organization.

That would be a good solution if there was a way to enlarge the thumbnail size produced by the HTML file. I know that this somehow involves something called cascading style sheets, but looking at the CSS files that Navis is using is like trying to read classical Greek. Is anyone aware of a tutorial for the code-averse that would allow enlarging the thumbnail size? Thanks.

-Crawford

[crawfords]

The best-run clash detections I've seen did not need to bother with separate level-by-level clash runs since each level was a separate model name already. So we only had to run Mech vs. Arch once for the whole building. This is because the clashing items' level could be determined by its model name.
\[/LIST]

Could you please elaborate on this process? I'm not sure I follow you, but it sounds like a promising workflow methodology. Thanks.

-Crawford

[amixam]

That would be a good solution if there was a way to enlarge the thumbnail size produced by the HTML file.

To change the thumbnail size, go to advanced options in Navisworks. To do this, hold down the shift key while selecting Global Options.

Under the registry setting, expand out the list and choose Current User>Clash Detection>Reports. You can now change the image to something other than 512 x 512. i.e. 1028 x 768

In your HTML report, the thumbnails will still appear as square, but when you click on them, they will show the resized image.

Cheers,

[hkossila]

The glitch, and it is a glitch, with the html including the full image path is one that Autodesk is aware of. I am told they are still working on a fix for this. One thing you can do in the meantime is open the HTML file with notepad. Then use the Replace command, enter the full path, such as C:projects\xxx\xxx or whatever, that it's looking for the image. Then in the "replace with" field don't put anything. This will get rid of the path for every image. Then save. Still not ideal, but it's better than viewing the source code and deleting the path one line at a time. I"m disgusted at how long it's taking Autodesk to fix this. If you look at the html code from a report generated from 2009, you'll see that the path isn't there. Hello! doesn't seem that hard a fix to me.

We group like items as well, then have a meeting to discuss who will do what, we add comments, approve things that aren't really clashes, and then print an HTML report with only active or new clashes. We use the report mainly as a to-do list and a record of where we are. Everyone gets a copy, mainly serves to remind people what we agreed on so things are fixed for the next clash detection. I would like to find a better way to export the report though, as it is cumbersome to zip and email all that junk. Does anyone have experience setting page breaks when printing to pdf? Also, does anyone know a way to customize the xml output. We like the spreadsheet itdea, just way to much junk to get rid of each time. Seriously, I don't need to know in 10 different columns the username of the person who approved a clash!
thanks,

[cjehly]

The best-run clash detections I've seen did not need to bother with separate level-by-level clash runs since each level was a separate model name already. So we only had to run Mech vs. Arch once for the whole building. This is because the clashing items' level could be determined by its model name.

I'm curious if this was done at the construction level, or if it was prior to issuing CD's.

I've never heard of a project doing coordination on an entire building at once, without a floor-by-floor coordination happened ahead of time. I'd LOVE to hear that there are projects like that happening "some where" though...

[RobertB]

Could you please elaborate on this process? I'm not sure I follow you, but it sounds like a promising workflow methodology. Thanks.Each level was a separate DWG model for all trades with the level name as part of the filename, e.g. 3D-E-Level-01. The Revit model was "sliced" by the architect at DWG export (we are the electrical consultant). Although this meant more models to add initially when setting up the Navisworks model, now when a clash occurs the level can be determined by which model in which the clash occurs.

[RobertB]

I'm curious if this was done at the construction level, or if it was prior to issuing CD's.

I've never heard of a project doing coordination on an entire building at once, without a floor-by-floor coordination happened ahead of time. I'd LOVE to hear that there are projects like that happening "some where" though...We have had jobs that went either way. I have seen that larger jobs tend to concentrate on batches of levels whereas medium-sized projects will "bite the bullet" on the initially large clash results but go for the entire building. The key is to clash early and often in-house before clash meetings on these whole building clashes.

This is being done in the VDC phase.

[cjehly]

We have had jobs that went either way. I have seen that larger jobs tend to concentrate on batches of levels whereas medium-sized projects will "bite the bullet" on the initially large clash results but go for the entire building. The key is to clash early and often in-house before clash meetings on these whole building clashes.

This is being done in the VDC phase.

ah, VDC. That explains a lot. Thanks for clarifying....

[RobertB]

ah, VDC. That explains a lot. Thanks for clarifying....Don't read too much into that... I'm doing my little bit for BIM by trying to get the architects to stop using SD/DD/CD phase terminology. So I'm really referring to the design BIM, not the construction BIM.

[Aaron.Wright]

Is there a way to save the visibility settings for the clash reports to be opened in Freedom so the subs will see where the highlighted clash is? This is a problem I've seen with saving the clashes as viewpoints because Saved Attributes are lost in Freedom.

[crawfords]

One thing that I have tried with this is to "report out" the clashes as viewpoints in Manage, then override the colors or transparencies of the conflicting items to highlight them. Then I right-click the viewpoint and click the "edit" button and make sure the Override Material checkbox is checked before exporting the NWD file out for Freedom.

Obviously, this is very labor-intensive, and perhaps best used for later stages in the project when the number of clashes has been reduced.

-Crawford

[cjehly]

Don't read too much into that... I'm doing my little bit for BIM by trying to get the architects to stop using SD/DD/CD phase terminology. So I'm really referring to the design BIM, not the construction BIM.

I've read enough of your posts to realize you're one of the "good guys". I always appreciate your candid comments.

[RobertB]

Is there a way to save the visibility settings for the clash reports to be opened in Freedom so the subs will see where the highlighted clash is? This is a problem I've seen with saving the clashes as viewpoints because Saved Attributes are lost in Freedom.


One thing that I have tried with this is to "report out" the clashes as viewpoints in Manage, then override the colors or transparencies of the conflicting items to highlight them. Then I right-click the viewpoint and click the "edit" button and make sure the Override Material checkbox is checked before exporting the NWD file out for Freedom.

Obviously, this is very labor-intensive, and perhaps best used for later stages in the project when the number of clashes has been reduced.Yikes! That is too much work for me. <shudder> I simply wish that the clash would remain highlighted. I can understand why it isn't, from a programmer's perspective, but that does not make me happy.

I think the programmers ought to create a Publish to NWD option that turns on the highlighting for all clash items (at the least). Although the model would be "littered" with highlighted items, at least the saved viewpoints would now have context for the clash. This would not be a perfect approach but it is better than what we currently have.

[RobertB]

I've read enough of your posts to realize you're one of the "good guys". I always appreciate your candid comments.Thanks! I appreciate your comments too.

[Aaron.Wright]

Please see attached. The highlighted text must be deleted for the HTML to be "portable" & read the relative location of the image files.

-Crawford

What is the best practice to edit the HTML report again? I'm trying it now with Notepad, Copying to Excel, Find All, Replace All, Re-Paste to Notepad and save. Very labor intensive as well. Plus, you still need to zip the report to reduce file size for emailing vs posting to ftp.

If whole idea of using Manage for Clash Detection is to make resolving conflicts easier between trades / disciplines, right now, the software and process of managing the clashes and gettting that information to designers / subs is not easy or efficient, frankly.

The viewer for this should be light and simple to install and navigate to clash points. The clash report should be slightly customizable after reporting from Navisworks, in my opinion.

[dgorsman]

I think the programmers ought to create a Publish to NWD option that turns on the highlighting for all clash items (at the least). Although the model would be "littered" with highlighted items, at least the saved viewpoints would now have context for the clash. This would not be a perfect approach but it is better than what we currently have.

I've been hoping for a "run-time clash module" for the Freedom/Review lines for a couple of releases. Something to point out to other companies where problems are cropping up without them requiring a full-out version of NavisWorks.

[dgorsman]

What is the best practice to edit the HTML report again? I'm trying it now with Notepad, Copying to Excel, Find All, Replace All, Re-Paste to Notepad and save. Very labor intensive as well. Plus, you still need to zip the report to reduce file size for emailing vs posting to ftp.

If whole idea of using Manage for Clash Detection is to make resolving conflicts easier between trades / disciplines, right now, the software and process of managing the clashes and gettting that information to designers / subs is not easy or efficient, frankly.

The viewer for this should be light and simple to install and navigate to clash points. The clash report should be slightly customizable after reporting from Navisworks, in my opinion.


Kind of confused here - doesn't Notepad have find-and-replace?

[Aaron.Wright]

No, I had to copy the text and paste in Excel. Do you know of any easier way? I'd like to find an easier way to modify the html report but that was painful.

[dgorsman]

No, I had to copy the text and paste in Excel. Do you know of any easier way? I'd like to find an easier way to modify the html report but that was painful.

Just double checked and Notepad *does* have a replace function. Almost every text editor does.

[KGC]

Each level was a separate DWG model for all trades with the level name as part of the filename, e.g. 3D-E-Level-01. The Revit model was "sliced" by the architect at DWG export (we are the electrical consultant). Although this meant more models to add initially when setting up the Navisworks model, now when a clash occurs the level can be determined by which model in which the clash occurs.

Just thinking off the top of my head on this. Are there any issues doing it this way for veritcal items that penatrate through floors (columns, HVAC risers, etc..)

I like the idea and will try to implement it myself. Thanks

[RobertB]

Just thinking off the top of my head on this. Are there any issues doing it this way for veritcal items that penatrate through floors (columns, HVAC risers, etc..)

I like the idea and will try to implement it myself.Presuming that the riser objects are in a separate file that is not level specific then yes, there is the potential that two riser objects create a clash and you would not "know" what level it was on. However, those are less common. Usually a riser object is clashing with something that is from a level-specific model so you have the clues you need.

[KGC]

Thank you much

[canadianco]

To change the thumbnail size, go to advanced options in Navisworks. To do this, hold down the shift key while selecting Global Options.

Under the registry setting, expand out the list and choose Current User>Clash Detection>Reports. You can now change the image to something other than 512 x 512. i.e. 1028 x 768


Any way to do this in Navisworks 2009? I don't see the "Reports" tab you mentioned... I assume it's because you're using 2010.

Thanks!

[rsloyer]

I have to admit, seeing this thread makes me feel like not such an idiot.

Initially we did not know about the "group" function and were analyzing clash, by clash, by clash... mind numbing.

Now my methodology is to group the clashes, and name the group by location, preferably a room number if possible. I then take a plan view shot of the clash, with the perspective turned off and the clash highlighted and everything else ghosted ("dim other" and "transparent dimming"). I then use the redline tools to put the name of the clash group in the view, which locks that view so that it comes up anytime you click on the clash group.

Export the clash report to HTML, at which point I started having the same problem re: the image links not working. I print the HTML as a .pdf and then select all of the image files in the folder where the clash report is saved and "convert to Adobe pdf" creating a pdf file for each image, which I then dump into the .pdf of the clash report in page view. Since each image has the clash group name right in the image, it's easy to track the image to the clash in the printout.