Send 3D model to SIPs manufacturer?

[patricks]

What would be the best way to send a 3D model of a home to a SIPs (structural insulated panel) manufacturer so they can look it over and assist me with structural design? I'm afraid 2D PDF drawings may not completely convey the design intent. 3D DWF? Could the person viewing the file hide or turn off various things in the model like the roof, individual walls, etc?

Also, anyone ever designed homes using SIPs? The particular home I'm working on has a particular roof form that I'm not sure how the structure will work with it. I know roof ridges and valleys need support beams, but what about cathedral-type ceilings (sheetrock applied to bottom of roof panels)? What keeps the tops of the wall panels from trying to tilt outwards with a cathedral ceiling? Would I need beams at the roof bearing level to act like collar ties?

[cliff collins]

3D DWF is a good route.

If you have Adobe Pro Extended you can even use a 3D PDF, which has layers
which can be turned on/off, etc.

I prefer 3D DWF or Navisworks for this sort of thing--very "BIM".

I have done some SIP projects in the past. There was a very detailed set of shop drawings
for each panel--sim. to an Arch. Precast Conc. job.

In Revit, you could use curtainwalls/panels for the SIP and create schedules, elevations,
sections etc. to share w/ the fabricator.

cheers.......

[bregnier]

I second the 3d dwf, although I think that the panel manufacturer might want some typical orothographic drawings as well. Have you modeled the SIPs yet or are you just showing the manufactuer the building form? What method did you use? I've worked a lot with them in the past and there are about a dozen ways it can be done.

[patricks]

I doubt I'll be actually modeling the panels. My firm doesn't do residential, I'm just doing this on the side for a friend of my boss. I'm basically just doing a set of house plans, with the intent for it to be built out of SIPs. The owner will then takes these plans to a SIPs manufacturer. So I'm showing things like the ridge beams and making provisions for the columns between panels that will have to support the ridge beams.

My main concern is how to support the roof at the valleys. The roof shape is basically 2 12/12 roofs that cross each other. Both roofs are the same width and height, and so there are 4 ridges and 4 valleys that all come together in one spot. I know I will have a large main ridge beam and 2 smaller ones on each side, and then the valley beams will have to come in between each ridge beam. But how to support those valley beams in the walls below is what I'm concerned about.

I tried a DWF and then opened and it looks very promising. I love how various parts can be made "translucent" so you can still see them, but see through them. Would be nice if Revit had a feature like that.

Is there a free DWF viewer that someone else can download to view these 3D DWF files?

[cliff collins]

check here:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=12423405&siteID=123112

cheers

[bregnier]

Each SIP manufacturer is going to have different methods for construction, so you should really check with them for their preferred details... that being said this website can be helpful.

http://www.insulspan.com/professionals/sipsdetail_index.html

[patricks]

Yeah I've been on that site, and downloaded their installation guide also.

Another good site I've been on is Premier Building Systems, but their site seems to be down at the moment www.pbssips.com Most of the details I've seen from all manufacturers are pretty similar, with the main difference being the amount of bearing called for on support beams and splice beams. I've seen anywhere from 1.5" to 3" minimum bearing for each panel called out in details from different manufacturers.

[cliff collins]

Regarding panel thickness/bearing:

It would depend on how much load is being imposed on the panel at the bearing edge,
and if shear is an issue--

alert--consult structural engineer, or make sure SIP mfg. has a licensed eng.
on staff.............

[trombe]

I doubt I'll be actually modeling the panels. My firm doesn't do residential, I'm just doing this on the side for a friend of my boss. I'm basically just doing a set of house plans, with the intent for it to be built out of SIPs. .........

I tried a DWF and then opened and it looks very promising. I love how various parts can be made "translucent" so you can still see them, but see through them. Would be nice if Revit had a feature like that.

Is there a free DWF viewer that someone else can download to view these 3D DWF files? (abridged)


Hi Patricks,
I agree with other that 3D dwf files are useful for collaboration up to a point. I use the method often however my clients do not need to use the embedded data and also do not have to have decent plans / drawings out of the viewer file.

I think this is still limited and I assume the manufacturer will improve the toolset , adding in materials (hopefully) for instance.
The files are small and robust it seems and if they have Vista, they can double click and the file will open in either IE or Windows Explorer as you wish, with all the same tool set, which is jolly handy because, I have found a lot of resistance to people downloading the 40Mb odd file and loading it ( yeah, crazy I know but they you are).

The Vista integration is very useful and assume it will carry over to Win 7.
It would be helpful if you could convert the dwf files....am not sure if TrueView can open and re-save this as a 3D pdf...suspect not.

For the future (and as Cliff eludes to), why not look at Right Hemisphere products or Adobe (Right Hemisphere technology is bound into most Adobe products now anyway) to get 3D PDF functionality ? or at least consider a useful open source type set up that night allow ready and non proprietorial conversion from architecture to cnc systems etc (dxf is really useful though).

Last thing....for making transparent components / elements as per Design Review...why not use the Paint function to make say a roof invisible....I know it takes about the same time as = select roof - Hide etc. , but there might be other value in having the wireframe show without the surface ? ? ?

Also, was looking at those links for the house made from weetbix ...over here, we need walls to breathe to provide assistance in controlling moisture / vapour diffusion both ways, and I have seen a few US vids of production house building......the SIP system looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen !! well it sure would be if it was built here in our temperate climate.

However for your issue, is there no room for portal frame works to support ridge and valley members ? You should be able to work with 3 - 3 1/2" SHS leg members or column sections for legs...assuming Mr Man is not planning on spray finishing the roof panel as is !! or, over sheetrock ? gypsum plasterboard.
Just a thought.
regards
trombe

[patricks]

Also, was looking at those links for the house made from weetbix ...over here, we need walls to breathe to provide assistance in controlling moisture / vapour diffusion both ways, and I have seen a few US vids of production house building......the SIP system looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen !! well it sure would be if it was built here in our temperate climate.



well this is a topic for another discussion, but our architecture office was renovated from an old house a couple of years ago, and we used soy-based spray-foam insulation in the exterior walls and roof. It's similar to the "tightness" you get from a SIP structure (possibly even more tight). This area is known for its very high humidity levels, especially in the summer months, yet we have not had any moisture problems in the past 2 summers.

We run very high-efficiency HVAC units that keep humidity low inside the building year-round, and our energy bills are still ~30% lower than the previous occupants of this building.

[billy342601]

I've done a few different SIP designs. The valley connection you are asking about is a common detail and the manufacturer will help you out. Their shop drawings are very well laid out and easy to follow.

3D dwf is the way to go, it really is. If you cannot do that, get them one 3d shot pdf and the rest of the building well dimensioned in 2d. They can work with it.

Premier panels (mentioned above) is the one I've done a lot of work with. They have a good support team to answer questions.

HTH