Help me evaluate Revit for my boss!

[pmcalhoun]

I work for a 50 person studio in Michigan (part of a 5 studio firm with about 200 people across the country) and we are faced with a tough (?) choice. We have used ADT for several years, but never implemented the ADT part of the software, only using it as a slightly tarted-up version of AutoCAD. Now part of a larger firm, we are faced with jumping fully into ADT 2005 (training and all) or possibly switching our office to Revit, with hopes that we could swing the whole company.

I've been begging for Revit since release 2 and have FINALLY been given the go ahead to get input from some Revit-based firms either near Michigan or doing work similar in size to our projects. We are almost exclusively a higher-education firm (starting to branch into K-12 work). Our projects are quite varied in size and scope and include a good amount of renovation. Project sizes usually vary between 10,000 and 200,000 square feet.

Some in our office have heard that Revit is nice, but slow. All I know is we can't continue to grow without some serious productivity improvements.

Please help me convince the right people that this will work for us - without making me sound like I was taken in by AutoDesk sales staff ;).

Thanks!

[FK]

Welcome!

Download the free 60 day demo, do the tutorials, generally find your way around, and show it off to the boss - modeling, schedules, render and all. It may be enough.

And don't fear the sales staff. You've got a serious enough account to command their attention.

[Andre Baros]

It's been said on this this forum several time but I'll say it again. The way to win the boss over is to have him try it for him or her self. Once they appreciate what it can do your job is done.

[Wes Macaulay]

People often say Revit is slow - the display system in Revit is different than Acad's, and it feels slow. But what you're doing is completely different, and people need to appreciate what they're doing with Revit.

Bob and I were talking about the Revit display sluggishness yesterday, and it does make the software feel slow. Sometimes REALLY slow. I don't know if that can ever be fixed, but I get the sense that the display system is as fast as it can be given Revit's change engine and that every view is a live link into the database.

[Scott D Davis]

You have to think about what Revit is doing: Change a door in plan. That change is bring updated in ALL of the other views of the model! Plans, sections, elevations, RCP, roof, 3D views, perspectives, schedules, all the sheets are updating on the fly! So it may take 5 to 10 seconds.....

Now, do that same change in AutoCAD, and tell me you can open EVERY sheet where that door may be shown, and make all the changes as fast as Revit. You can't! It's impossible!

[rubidge]

Bob and I were talking about the Revit display sluggishness yesterday, and it does make the software feel slow. Sometimes REALLY slow.


I am also evaluating Revit.... and am finding it difficult to convince myself one way or another. Some thoughts and perceptions.......


On the down side:
this sluggishness is a real downer, especially coming from Autocad where things pan and zoom without any perceived delay (surely Revit could do some of it's calculations in the background, especially when views or windows are not currently visible).

"You can't do that, but there is a workaround." I hear that very often in this user group. That frightens me a bit, and will lead to a great deal of frustration.

The rendering output seems weak, compared to VIZ (in Architectural Desktop), Bentley Triforma, or even Archicad (please tell me I'm wrong).

The abilities of Revit outside of the core building model are Light or poor (electrical & plumbing layouts, civil works & site shaping, structural framing)

Lack of an API.

Regular updates with large improvements. (shows that the software is still "young" and missing features I would want or expect)

On the upside:
Revit is fascinating, powerful, elegant.
This newsgroup, with dedicated, helpful people
Revit does what Architectural CAD (BIM) software should do. It has to be the way of the future. We must work this way if we are to increase productivity and ability.
Lack of an API.
Regular updates with large improvements. (shows that the development team is responding to wishes and keeping up with or ahead of other software - I have not seen any "real" improvements in AutoCAD since 2000).

As you can see, I am still finding my way.......

[Scott D Davis]

The rendering output seems weak, compared to VIZ (in Architectural Desktop), Bentley Triforma, or even Archicad (please tell me I'm wrong).You are wrong! :mrgreen: (well, you said.....) But seriously, rendering output is controlled in any program by user input. Take the time to set up materials, lighting, environments, etc, and you will get nice renderings. On the flip-side, if you produce a Revit model, hit the render button and completely use the standard out-of-the-box materials, etc.....you are going to get a 'standard' OOTB rendering.

This would be the same for VIZ....I could do a model, and render in VIZ with no 'effort' and get a so-so image. Accurender is just as capable in many respects as VIZ, but you will need to do your homework.

If you must use VIZ, there is a plug-in that works with Revit 7.0, and VIZ 2005, which allows an exported Revit model to be opened in VIZ, and all materials and lighting come along.


The abilities of Revit outside of the core building model are Light or poor (electrical & plumbing layouts, civil works & site shaping, structural framing)
Structural, and MEP packages are in development. In the mean time, there's AutoCAD and any other 'standard' practice for producing these documents. How are you doing elec & plumbing now? Continue to do it the same way.


Lack of an API.Also in development....but I still do not see lack of an API as a negative....


Regular updates with large improvements. (shows that the software is still "young" and missing features I would want or expect)
Not really, regular updates have become the model for Autodesk. Because of the Revit team's rapid release cycle has been so successful, other Autodesk products are adapting the same schedules, including AutoCAD. You can expect a new release of AutoCAD yearly now. Yes Revit is young, but is in my opinion so far ahead already, the relases can only continue to make it that much better!

[FK]

On the down side:
Lack of an API.

On the upside:
Lack of an API.
Wise. Really really wise.

[Wes Macaulay]

Wise. Really really wise.I think his point is this:

The upside of no API means simplicity: no add-ons, just the vanilla flavour of the software
The downside is that there are no add-ons, no possibility for people to build their own innovations onto the software.

[FK]

Exactly. ;)

[ajayholland]

We are almost exclusively a higher-education firm (starting to branch into K-12 work). Our projects are quite varied in size and scope and include a good amount of renovation. Project sizes usually vary between 10,000 and 200,000 square feet.

Our office in Raleigh-Durham has completed some significant projects of this type. Contact me by PM or E-mail - I'll be happy to connect you with the principals.

This brings to my mind the question: When do we stop collaborating and begin competing? Will firms begin to isolate themselves from this community to protect their perceived technological advantage?

A topic for another thread?

~AJH

[Autodesk Revit]

I think his point is this:

The upside of no API means simplicity: no add-ons, just the vanilla flavour of the software
The downside is that there are no add-ons, no possibility for people to build their own innovations onto the software.
You are mostly right. I have always hated being told "Autocad can do that, but you have to buy an ADD-ON". And there is never a budget for add-ons. I like the idea of it all being there when I need it. I hope that Revit never starts to sell what should be core functions as add-ons. Structural or plumbing reticulation (or electrical, or civil works) are core functions in my opinion, at least drawing the components and reticulation. I guess the engineering calculations are not core to an architects role.

But I have always appreciated being able to modify my environment to do multiple things in one go, especially things I do often. These are mostly simple Scripts and toolbar macros, presets for office standards and the like.

[tmullins68225]

But I have always appreciated being able to modify my environment to do multiple things in one go, especially things I do often. These are mostly simple Scripts and toolbar macros, presets for office standards and the like.
Yea, but Revit takes care of most everything I ever needed a script for. And I agree with the API. The most corrupt or buggy AutoCAD files I've delt with had used 3rd party software as some point or other.

[LRaiz]

The most corrupt or buggy AutoCAD files I've delt with had used 3rd party software as some point or other.
Very true. The most challenging aspect of API is the fact that with wide open API like the one in AutoCAD 3d party may write software that not only has bugs of its own but may destabilize the framework provided by an original vendor. In that kind of situation users end up especially frustrated because neither Autodesk nor 3d party is responsibile for overall reliability and robustness.

[Rols]

I've been evaluating Revit for a little more than a year now. I work for a firm of 85 and we specialize in multi-family housing and hospitality, but we do a pretty wide range of project types.
I faced the same decision a few months ago. Do we upgrade from ADT 3.3 to ADT 2005, or do we switch to Revit. The thing to remember is that Revit is REALLY different. I finally decided that the best path for us was the slow and deliberate one. We will somdeday use Revit exclusively, but it's going to take a few years.
We are now doing our first real project in Revit. We took a team of 3 (me included) and trained them (12 hours) and turned them loose. We have yet to find something we can't do in Revit that we did in ADT. It sometimes takes some experimentation, but you can get there. The productivity gains we've seen are pretty incredible for a first project. Coordination is a dream! Once we had created the model, we had complete plans and elevations. I can look at the first floor plan, overlay the second floor plan (and not worry about inserting it at 0,0,0) and align walls. Building sections are also "automatic", just place the marker and it's drawn. Wall sections are similar, but we're going in and adding detail components. Details are basically drawn over the model underlayment. We've even imported our standard details from ADT, changed the text and dimensions and placed them right on the sheets. As for the sheets, we now have 35 sheets in the set. I have yet to touch a reference bubble and everything is perfectly referenced. Schedules also take care of themselves. Place a door and it's scheduled.
This project wraps up in January and then we'll be looking to split the team and start 2 or 3 new projects. It's not going to happen overnight, but we are going to Revit and we'll put up with ADT until then.

[Wes Macaulay]

I finally decided that the best path for us was the slow and deliberate one. We will somdeday use Revit exclusively... It's not going to happen overnight, but we are going to Revit and we'll put up with ADT until then.I think it will take you months rather than years, but your strategy is spot-on. We've found that about 12h of direct training is perfect, than set 'em loose in the project and answer questions on the spot.

Then sometimes we'll bring back for some tips and tricks lessons, or address particular questions people have been having.