Making the switch - possibly

[tra1133]

My medium sized architecture firm is studying the possibility of switching from Autocad Architecture 2009 to Revit Architecture 2010. We have 4 licenses that some of us played around with over the summer (it was really slow) and now one of the partners asked my opinion on making the switch. I told him that all of the people that played around with the software (including myself) loved it. I also suggested that he contact another firm that made the switch and get their opinion.

My questions are:

1. How much time and money is this going to cost us? I am the CAD Manager and am assuming that I would be aiding any switch that we make. I know the licenses are more expensive but if our productivity goes up, then it would be worth it. How much training does it typically take and how long does it take to get everything set up.

2. What's the best way to do this? Should I try and do most of the grunt work myself (I set up the ACA 2007, 2008, and 2009 programs and wrote CAD Manuals from scratch - we moved up from ADT 3.3) or should I hire someone to come in and help me set things up. I definitely don't want it set up for us and then we have to rely on a third party when things go wrong. I currently own the Aubin and Wing books on Revit and am waiting to buy the Implementation Book until after the holidays.

3. What's a realistic timeline in making the switch. I obviously know from making the switch from 3.3 to 2007 how many people fought doing things the new way (AEC objects versus 2d linework) so I assume that will continue. If a partner ask me how long before things are up and running smoothly (which I know never happens), what should I tell them.

Any answer would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Munkholm]

First of all - Do it !

And before I forget, Autodesk have a tool to calculate the Return Of Investment: http://images.autodesk.com/apac_india_main/files/4301694_Revit_ROI_Calculator.zip

But let´s try and answer your questions, one by one:

1. The software updates are not really that expensive, make sure to update to Revit Suites, which also contains ACA licenses - The most expensive thing is training - but it depends on how you choose to get that traning. Are you gonna send everyone to training courses at your reseller, or are you gonna hire a frellance revit trainer as myself ? (The last options is ofcourse the cheapest and best :-) )
But honestly, either way, it´s gonnabe 3-6 months before everything is running smoothly.

2. If you´re willing to spent a great deal of sparetime on it, I´d suggest that you do most of the grunt work yourself, and then, when you get the hang of the basics, hire in a specialist, for say 4-8 weeks, to help getting templates and training of your colleagues right.

3. That really depends on the colleagues - are they easy transmitters, or are the scared s***less of anything new ? Most companys that i´ve worked for, have been VERY happy after 3-6 months :beer:

Best of luck with the switch !

[CADMama]

You can actually get someone to come in and take your ACA template and using it as an example, get your RAC template set up in about 3 days. It is much faster than trying to do it all yourself. Definitely sit in with them and make sure they explain all they are doing.

Do not think you can teach yourself like you have on ADT and ACA! This ain't your daddy's AutoCAD. Get professional training. Start with a small group for the first project. I suggest that each time you add a team they get professional training. This keeps the inbreeding of bad practices from being passed down.

Now - why do I feel this way??? I have been at cad for over 25 years. Come up through the ranks of AutoCAD, Softdesk R12 etc..... I have been a consultant for Autodesk, ran an Autodesk training center, taught at AU, worked professionally in many fields, etc. and I have found that the faster I get things going is better and training is faster than beating your head on your monitor trying to figure things out yourself. I was always "self taught" on acad. I used to print out the menu to see what they had changed. This Revit is different. There are so many places to just set your text style that it takes someone that knows what they are doing to get in and find them all. It is not like having a text style you use.

Best of luck and don't forget to come back and ask questions here.

[ppirtle]

You might also want to check out this thread:

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=1022595#post1022595

[twiceroadsfool]

Dont forget the ever important Hardware question: Is what you are all running enough?

For a small office, needing hardware replacements across the board can be a deal breaker.

If you expect to get FULLY up and operational in short order, have someone else set up your office standards and templates. Im saying that for a few reasons: 1: It seems like you guys are are small tightnit group. Getting a template and decent set of standards up and running takes a bit of time... The amount of time directly correlating to how intensely done you want it. Having done it in several offices, each time i did it (as i learned more) i realized i wanted to have more and more things *set up correctly.* If you do it yourself, youll do the best that you can (as a new user), and then a month later, youll start to see the "i wish i had dones," but youll be in the thick of the fire, and wont be able to get to it.

Cadmama is right, there are settings EVERYWHERE. Patterns and styles both in content, and in templates. Dont get them corrdinated and its not a big deal, but midway through CD's youll have extra and redundant stuff everywhere. Filters. Families. View settings. Schedules. Catagories. Libraries and pathing. Typical details.

I wrote a post on what i learned the few times ive done this, in another conversation here: http://forums.augi.com/showpost.php?p=1028182&postcount=11. Its just something to think about. But if i wanted to get up and running FAST, id get some GOOD outside help.

FWIW i also think you can get better hired help from some of the independents that post on these forums, than you will going through some of the more official channels. No disrespect is meant to ANYONE with that comment, its just a personal Chevy versus Ford thing. :)

[ajayholland]

This Revit is different.
It takes someone that knows what they are doing...
Do not think you can teach yourself...

I agree with the first two (re-ordered) statements, but self-training and independent exploration are valuable. The best transitions I have seen are those where someone develops a real passion for the technology and becomes the leader of the BIM effort.

~AJH

[twiceroadsfool]

AJ-

I wholeheartedly agree with the VALUE of the passion and self exploration.... But there is a dollar amount to that value. My only point was this: Decide how much that self exploration is worth, because i think we can all agree that if we set up an office today (or tomorrow) we wouldnt do it the exact same way we would have when we were first learning Revit.

Its an expensive road to venture down twice, especially for a small office.

[CADMama]

OK - for the past four years I was working doing set up and training so maybe I am a little prejudice.

I have been able to go in and sit near the CAD Manager and ask for their CAD files to work from. I took the cad files and opened them in cad to explore what the settings were. I would then edit the revit template to set it up. The CAD Manager could go on working on whatever with very little disturbance. I would have sent a list ahead to have things ready for me when I got there. I would train the next week. Whenever we started some thing new in the class I could take their template and use it. I could show them where their project information is and how it worked with the titleblocks. They saw things that looked like "home" to them so it was not such a scary place to go.

Doing setup before training can be done but doing it after the training may be another idea. I have done it both ways. I like doing it after because the cad manager would then be able to know a little more about what I was doing and why. The problem with this is folks are ready to go to work on revit and they now have to wait. Training one week then getting to work the next week is best.

I did an architectural firm in 3 days and 2 days for engineering firms. Seems that Architects are much more picky about their fonts and they have more titleblocks to be set up.They also have about 5 different fonts just on their titleblock. Engineering firms say if you can read it clearly then why change the font!

If you have to learn how to make titleblock families, where to set all the fonts, figure out visibility parameters for stamps, find all the dimension settings, callouts, tags, linetypes, fill patterns, and then any other object based families, you will take a lot longer trying to learn Revit and where to find it then it would take if you brought someone in to get you set up.

Go explore - get your feet wet - but bring in someone that has done set up before if at all possibly.

[dzatto]

Question:
I too am contemplating moving to Revit to do custom houses.

I've used Autocad, then ADT 3.3 all the way up to ACA2010, which is what I use now. Full project navigator, full 3D, including renderings (sometimes).

Oh yeah, the question. I used Paul Aubins book along with AUGI to help me get a grip on project navigator. Great book. If I decide to jump into Revit, I have no choice but to be self taught. Is there a good book anyone can recommend comparable to Paul's book on ACA?

[cliff collins]

http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Aubins-Mastering-Revit-Architecture/dp/143905715X/ref=pd_sim_b_4

or ( shameless plug ) check out this book, where I have a section in the Appendix
of a case study on our firm's adoption of Revit............

http://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Implementing-Revit-Architecture-2010/dp/1435493109/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261156287&sr=1-10


cheers..............

[tra1133]

Thanks for the replies. Very helpful and we will probably pay our reseller to come in and get things going. Thanks.

Dzatto, Aubin wrote a book for Revit that I used to self teach myself (at least as far as a more advanced beginner). It was easy to use and had the usual follow through that he had in his ACA books. I also bought the Eric Wing book for beginners and was disappointed with it. Lots of errors and it seemed that the publisher rushed it to press.

[dzatto]

Thanks for the links guys! Cliff, does your book go into teaching the basics of using the program, or just implementation?

I'll be picking up Paul's book if I decide to buy Revit.