Best method to move a whole wing of a house?

[Kroke]

Turns out I have to move a whole 2 story wing over directy to the left 3.5'. When I try to move it, I go into a roof plan view, turn it to wireframe, but when I move I get constant errors like "Floor sketch invalid" or "this detached, that detached, blah blah" and the only option out is Cancel.

What is the best way to move something like this? I have structural roof members in place also, I think that may have something to do with why it's being such a buggar.

Any help very appriciated. I already stayed up till 5am last night trying to put this project to bed...

TIA
(Image below of second story floor plan)

[beegee]

My first thought would be to delete the link between the two wings if that is possible, without creating too much work to redo later.

I would then select the wing in 3D and move it in a plan view. Annotations would then be selected per level and moved the same distance. The I would rebuild the connection between the two wings .( that would be required in any case I assume. )

If that doesn't work due to constraints, I would investigate grouping all the elements in that wing ( using 7.0) so that the group could be moved.

HTH

[Kroke]

Thanks beegee...that makes sense, I'll try that now....

[rubidge]

As Charlie Brown (remember him?) would say: "Good grief!"

In autocad I would just draw a window through where I wanted the move and STRETCH. Takes 2 seconds. Surely Revit could do this too!?!?

[BillyGrey]

Thats really easy to do with lines and rubber bands, not so easy with models or real structures...

[Scott D Davis]

In autocad I would just draw a window through where I wanted the move and STRETCH. Takes 2 seconds.
Then you would save, and open the reflected ceiling plan, and stretch that one. Then you would open the sections, and stretch all of those. Then you would open the elevations, and stretch all of those. Then you would open the site plan, and make the changes there. Then you would open the roof plan, and update that one. Then you would need to check all of your enlarged plans, and make changes as necessary. If tyhis is a multi-story building, open all the other floors and stretch those.

Then you need to go through each one of those plans and make sure all of your dimensions, annotations, notes, etc., are still located properly, and make adjustments as necessary. Then you would need to go through each sheet, because now that you've stretched the building, you know that your viewports will probably be cutting off some of the plans. Readjust view ports and save every sheet again.....better hope that the stretched plan still fits on the sheet at the scale it was at. If it doesn't, change the scale of the viewport, and now go through and update all of the annotations to be the right size at the printed scale.

So ultimately, in AutoCAD, it doesn't take two seconds. A 'simple' change could become an all day excersize.

[Steve_Stafford]

You CAN select all the model elements in each level's view and 3d view, then use Move and check Disjoin, however if you modeled the floor slab comprehensively (overall, not each wing separately) you'll get errors since the floor sketch lines can't be supported by the move.

If each wing of the house is using its own floor slab then you can probably move the wing pretty easily. Any object that uses elements of each wing to define it may complain about such a move. You need to remove these dependancies before you move the wing.

Grouping everything you select temporarily can help with a move or rotation too. Especially if you don't get it right the first time. It's good idea to work out where your stuff needs to end up first and place some reference or model lines to use as a target to hit.

To say it is easy to do this in AutoCAD isn't entirely true. To do the same thing in AutoCAD, sure we can stretch or move freely, but you must do this for every plan file and every elevation file and section file and not to mention all the annotation you'll have to adjust as well (assuming there is any). The time it will take to do such a move in an AutoCAD project and keep all the files coordinated will probably be more than doing this in Revit.

(Well said Quick Draw Davis)

[rubidge]

You are right, of course, about it taking a long time in Autocad, to coordinate the change through all the documentation. And later, more time to fix the problems caused by errors in that co-ordination.

But....

I don't know enough about Revit to understand why the constraints can't be adjusted as the model is stretched (if there were such a comand). Obviously if you try to stretch an object like a door then it just moves (like a block would in autocad). If that door has two constraints positioning it between walls, then why should one constraint not change. This would be almost a Meta level change which overrides the given constrints (obviously to be used with care), and when constraint conflicts arise one should be given the option to either remove the constraint or allow it to be adjusted automatically.

This seems to be a repeat problem: moving a whole segment of the model, rotating a portion or the whole thing, etc.

[Steve_Stafford]

I don't know enough about Revit to understand why the constraints can't be adjusted as the model is stretched (if there were such a comand).The issue doesn't really affect most objects. Primarily roofs, floors and in-place families can suffer because you use walls or objects to define the sketch lines.

A move or rotate can create a situation where the sketch lines cross one another and this isn't permitted. If you just move a building farther away you can probably do it without negative consequences. But a rotate and move might not work.

It really comes down to the specifics of a project and how the model was assembled.

[Kroke]

Yah, I had no luck moving it. The problem is the errors. I understand why Revit gets upset when I try to move an entire structure in 3d with parametric structural rafters, etc. There's a LOT of geometry in there. As stated above, sure, it would be easy to stretch in Acad, but reworking the elevations suck, what if I wanted to rotate the thing 15%%d? Have fun re-doing your sections and elevations. That's why I'll stick to Revit, even if it does mean I'm deleting that wing and redoing it from scratch. I know my sections are right, and my butt is on the line when it comes time to frame. Ahh, I can sleep at night and not fret when they start bringing in the custom cut timbers from outside of the country thanks to Revit.

Anyhow, I think I had too much stuff constrained to stuff, as I say, the problem I'm seeing is I get a warning about "Can't move objects, constrained to one direction while other objects are constrained to a different direction" or something similar. The problem is, I have NO IDEA what objects Revit is talking about. The error window expand doesn't help much unfortunatley. Hopfully in future versions I will be able to know what elements EXACTLY are the causes of such error messages. I don't have a single doubt with the design team for Revit that this can be achieved at some point.

Thanks for the info guys...

PS, Hey Scott, what if I inserted a drawing sheet that pushed all my other sheets +1, so now all my section markers and callouts refer to the wrong pages? Sometimes making sure those are accurately pointing to the correct detail in Acad can take all darned day. Revit=Drag n Drop...Done...awe ghia, 3D baby.

[Scott D Davis]

Kroke,

you may want to move it piece by piece....grab one outside wall, move it the set distance. The floors and roofs, etc should move with it. Then select the opposite wall, move it the same distance. Revit likes those relationships better than trying to move everything all at once.

and you are right about inserting a new sheet in AutoCAD, although I think if you use Sheet Set manager in 2005, it may make it easier.....problem is, you still have to set it up and manage it....in Revit, it's built in!

[beegee]

Another possibility.

Make a copy of the file and in that copy, delete the part of the house you don't want to move.
Try a move with disjoin now to see if there are any constraints preventing the move. Debug that progressively, by attempting to move subsets only ( such as just walls floor and roofs, without other objects for example ) Hopefully you will get that model to the point where it moves properly, even if you have to delete some elements, but maintain the majority.

Once you have that, delete the wing in the main (original) file and copy paste the wing from the file you have worked up.

[Kroke]

Well, look at this image...see all the little timber accents and the structural logs? I think that is why it's not moving like I want it. The design has changed now, I'm deleting that whole trouble wing because of site restrictions, and the "courtyard" behind the garage is waaay too small anyhow. But I have noted this thread for future changes for sure. Thanks for all of the tips. I learn a lot here everytime I log in thanks to you guys.

Too much geometry to move at once (I turned the roofs off so you could see what's constraining Revit):

[Steve_Stafford]

How are you doing the structure? In-place families? If so, you have to be careful what plane you use to create them because they won't want to move away from it/them unless you bring em along too.

Are you moving and using DISJOIN? That should let you pull it away.

[papurajx]

Then you would save, and open the reflected ceiling plan, and stretch that one. Then you would open the sections, and stretch all of those. Then you would open the elevations, and stretch all of those. Then you would open the site plan, and make the changes there. Then you would open the roof plan, and update that one. Then you would need to check all of your enlarged plans, and make changes as necessary. If tyhis is a multi-story building, open all the other floors and stretch those.

Then you need to go through each one of those plans and make sure all of your dimensions, annotations, notes, etc., are still located properly, and make adjustments as necessary. Then you would need to go through each sheet, because now that you've stretched the building, you know that your viewports will probably be cutting off some of the plans. Readjust view ports and save every sheet again.....better hope that the stretched plan still fits on the sheet at the scale it was at. If it doesn't, change the scale of the viewport, and now go through and update all of the annotations to be the right size at the printed scale.

So ultimately, in AutoCAD, it doesn't take two seconds. A 'simple' change could become an all day excersize.
It seems Scot Davis is so obsessed (passionate) with Revit and gets little edgy with a simple question from an hitherto 'AutoCAD' user!!! His answers appears to be 'sarcastic'.

[Kroke]

It seems Scot Davis is so obsessed (passionate) with Revit and gets little edgy with a simple question from an hitherto 'AutoCAD' user!!! His answers appears to be 'sarcastic'.

Of course they are, why wouldn't they be? We've all been through the Acrap hell. He's probably just speaking out of frustration of having had to use it when (do I dare say) *it was in it's prime*? I know, been there, done that, ain't goin back... :D

[beegee]

I think Scott's reply nailed the problem of comparing any 2D CAD system with a parametric database system and Lloyd Rubidge agreed.

[sfaust]

ok, I give up, how did you get shadows to cast with a transparent material?

[Kroke]

I used Sketchup for that. That way I could send the model to the client for his review using the viewer tool on his end before I buttoned everything down :P

[Martin P]

I have come across similar problems and found that picking all the objects you want, go to move command and pick the "DISJOIN" button works very well, as suggested by others above - but make sure you also switch OFF the "CONSTRAIN" button - it generally kills any of the errors - you will most likely have a bit of re-working to do with floor sketches etc, but it doesnt take too long to fix........

You can find offending objects by trial and error using the above, just move bits till you cant move one thing - it really wont take to long... (dont save though!)

[sfaust]

oh, i see. darn, thought I was missing something. On a sidenote, though, you can get a similar thing without shadows if you make your "phase-new" material semi-transparent and then use a phase filter to override new construction. Looks pretty cool too.

[shaunv68276]

The Method I have used with great success is to group the stuff you want to move and move it. That simple? It does all the disjoins for you.

[adegnan]

Kroke,

How about attaching some grid lines, locking some walls to the grids, then grabbing only the grids to move them?

Also, how about the sketched items like walls and footprint roofs-- don't grab them; if their sketches are constrained to the walls then they should move automatically. Same with windows and doors, they should move if the walls move.

Alternately, drill into those error messages, write down the object ID from the error, and use the Tools>Element ID's to find out what it is that conflicts!

Hope you solved it by now anyway. I've been gone for a week. ;)