modify windows / windows delete themselves

[..shaner]

hi everyone

i have a major problem, i need to modify my windows height by 100mm.

when i modify the parameters to reduce the window height i get the message "Instance(s) of 2200x1900 not cutting anything." for about half the windows.

this is a huge problem because i have to reinsert all the windows, redimension them, retag them, and reedit the graphic overides on elevation(to modify lineweights for creating depth)

this is extremely time consuming

the only thing i can thing of is there is a conflict with the window family and the window trim family. the two have been seperated out because when the model is inserted in revit structure, RS considers the entire entity to be the window and cuts and oversized opening.

i need to solve this problem because we often make small changes to window size later in the project and this is a big time consumer.

thanks

[sbrown]

I would imagine there is a problem with the window family. Open it, make the change, see if you get any errors. Fix the errors and reload the window chosing the 2nd overwrite choice.

[phyllisr]

...message "Instance(s) of 2200x1900 not cutting anything...
Assuming you have thoroughly checked the family, I have another possibility.

Any chance these are in a stacked wall or that they cut through two walls that may not be built as a stacked wall but function like one? Or perhaps in a wall with a manual sweep or reveal that crosses the opening cut (not a problem with sweeps and reveals built into the style)?

We had a similar problem and were able to trace it to those circumstances. We found that not only did we lose the cut but it corrupted the family and we were not able to reload or purge. The explanation is a little involved and entirely based on several project experiences (rather than confirmed by Autodesk Support) but I would be happy to pull it from our internal tips and post if this might be your problem.

[..shaner]

i have looked at the families. im not sure what the problem could be with them. they are very simple and clean, fully parametric and they seem to work well. the trim families too, very clean, the parametrics work well. ive uploaded the 2 family files. im sure there is some sort of conflict between the 2 but i cant solve the issue.

as far as the wall goes, it is not stacked and has never been... we've had so many problems with stacked walls we just plain avoid them now

there are no manual sweeps running though the windows on this project.


... thanks for your help.
shane

[sbrown]

Did you align and lock the window head / sill to anythings?

[..shaner]

i aligned the window trims to the actual window when it was originally placed, but i didnt lock it.

[phyllisr]

...but I didn't lock it...
Scott asked what would have been my next question... Excellent instinct. This was a piece of the puzzle with our sweeps, stacked walls and corrupted families.

Even if it is not locked, however, an alignment could be the issue. You cannot always be certain what edge you are actually using for the alignment since in a virtual world, things can reside in the same plane. Part of our original problem was inconsistent alignment. We thought (for example) that we were aligning a sill to a window when in fact we were aligning it to the wall edge. Or the reverse. We had issues if we aligned a sill to the window and then swapped the window whether it was locked or not. Revit got "confused" about what to do in which order.

Unfortunately, I do not have a "quick fix." In our case, we went to the trouble of finding a few windows and sills that did not get lost and copied those to the location where they did get lost. But it was a ton of work and involved a bunch of tagging and schedule QC.

We can prevent the problem in new projects with a quick swap test when placing the window. But once it happens, it can be an huge thing to fix.

[sbrown]

Question, If the window trims are in the same model as the windows, why not nest them into the window family. Assuming they are on a sep. sub category, ie Trim, they can be turned off by the structural. I wonder if you've made more work for yourself than you need to.

[patricks]

Question, If the window trims are in the same model as the windows, why not nest them into the window family. Assuming they are on a sep. sub category, ie Trim, they can be turned off by the structural. I wonder if you've made more work for yourself than you need to.

I seem to remember discussion in here about window and door families with trim causing the hole in structural walls in RST files to be cut larger than the actual door opening. I think this is what the OP was referring to.

[..shaner]

correct, we had to separate the frames for that reason.

[sbrown]

Wow, I've never seen that. I would be surprised if the families are created correctly that that would happen.

[phyllisr]

I would be surprised if the families are created correctly that that would happen.
Since I am certain you are not challenging our family skills... :)

If you are really interested as an academic exercise, I could probably pull the two worst projects where we had this issue and send them along with the families. But since they are really large, I would have to post through an FTP site. Send me a message through AUGI if you want the sample and I will see what I can find...

Or, we could all go back to trying to make money in a very tight economy. :cry:

[sbrown]

I'm not challenging. I just have never heard of the structural models openings taking on the trim size instead of the opening size. I believe you. I'm just suprised.

[patricks]

Thread discussing the trim and structural opening size issue

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=76701

[..shaner]

ok... im making the changes slowly...

just so anyone who is following this thread knows, i think the answer is somewhere in the wall - all my walls were connected to the floor above. when i change the wall to 'unconnected' and add the height it seems to correct many of the conflicts.

hope this helps.

update: nevermind... still doesn't work.. i got over excited.

[..shaner]

omg... my boss wants me to move the windows up again... ok i just finished 4 hours of fixing this junk and i ask revit to move the windows and it deletes every window and trim in my entire project

this is all unproductive time, one full day wasted on something that should take seconds.

im sick of these glitches, autodesk - how bout testing your software instead of releasing a new version ever year full of bugs???



..... sorry for the rant. im very ready to go back to drafting boards and pencils again.

[Steve_Stafford]

Wow, I've never seen that. I would be surprised if the families are created correctly that that would happen.This occurs when Copy/Monitor is used on walls between RAC and RST. The openings created in the C/M walls in the RST model have openings equal to the overall extent of the geometry in the window or door family, not the void or opening extent as we'd expect. This has been this way for as long as C/M and RST have been around fwiw. Apparently it is a "big" project to resolve, using programming speak.

[Steve_Stafford]

...this is all unproductive time, one full day wasted on something that should take seconds...I know this won't thrill you but support REALLY needs to get a copy of your file. Please create a support request and submit the model as soon as you can. I doubt they'll give you a silver bullet in time, honestly but at least the developers can track down the specific issues and perhaps plug the leak. In this we are all in this together. :smile:

[..shaner]

ya ill send that forsure... this has been a problem for a few past projects too... not just to this extent!

[sbrown]

I can't believe they coded it that way. Seems like a big mistake. I guess thats why our consultants don't use copy monitor. They just re draw the walls and make openings where they need them. But to the original poster, I want to re-state what Steve said. You must submit a support request. They may have the answer you need. Are you able to do that? if not post your file to an FTP and one of us can.

[cdatechguy]

Can you possibly post a rvt file with a wall with the windows this is happening with? Especially the family with the 2200x1900 instance....as the families you posted don't have that type listed.

And just a thought, you might want to try using Opening instead of using a void for the window itself....