Gutter Mitre

[beegee]

Using Host Sweeps to create roof gutters around hipped roofs, is anyone getting them to mitre correctly ?

I can usually get the first two to do it, then it all goes pear shaped and I spend what seems like ages on cleanup.

[aggockel50321]

Like you, I usually waste an hour trying to get them to flip and mitre correctly, and then I give up & do an in-place sweep.

[Urban D]

I also have the same problem. With a lot of patience I can usually get the outside corners to mitre, but am having no luck with inside corners, not sure if the description is quite right.
Given that I am only starting my second residential project, maybe I just need more experience.
Is there a tool to mitre the gutter?

[gregcashen]

Post an example of the mitre that is causing your headache. I had many problems at first, but most of them were user error.

[beegee]

Here's a typical example.

I did the fascias first. First corner OK. Others not mitred.
Then the gutter, starting with the mitred fascia corner and the other 3 dont mitre.

All host sweeps placed from 3D view, by spinning the model.

Thanks for your help.

[shaunv68276]

The reason your gutters don't mitre is your facia's havent mitred. get them to complete first then do your gutters

[beegee]

Hmmm yes, gutters and fascias not mitring is all part of the same deal, if one works, so will the other.

Any idea how to get the fascias to mitre properly ?

[gregcashen]

I realize that shaunv and my model look the same, so I am assuming that he did the same thing.

Basically, you need to be sure that you create the fascia as a single sweep. If you stop the command, you need to select the swep and then use the "Add or Remove Segments" button in the options toolbar to add to it. If you just place another segment, it is technically a separate fascia and it will not mitre with the other.

That said, I tried to fix yours twice. The first time, I used the Add or Remove Segments button, and one corner still didn't clean up. So the second time I deleted the whole thing, including the fascia and the gutter, and then added the fascia in one fell swoop, then repeated with the gutter. I usually do this in plan (site plan or roof plan usually) so I can see the mitres and can place the continuous sweeps without having to pan all over or switch views. It really makes it much easier to see if it is sticking together as expected.

If you want to send me the real file, I can try to work it out for you. :wink:

[beegee]

Thanks Greg,

I've always worked from the 3D model for this previously, since I assumed that the gutter/fascia could locate to the wrong height at the roof line if I tried it in plan. Of course, that means panning, which interupts the continuity you're talking about and seems to cause the non mitre problem.

I assume we're still talking about host sweeps and not an in-place sweep ?

[gregcashen]

Yep. All host sweeps. Just use the standard Roof Fascia and Roof Gutter commands. If you do move around in 3D, make sure you quit out of the sweep command, then reorient, then click on the sweep and use the Add or Remove Segments button to add segments.

[Urban D]

Greg, yes it is easier to place the fascia and gutter in plan view, I was doing the same as Beegee.
Every thing mitres except the part that joins the portico.
I have attached 2 files to explain.

[Urban D]

Greg, yes it is easier to place the fascia and gutter in plan view, I was doing the same as Beegee.
Every thing mitres except the part that joins the portico.
I have attached 2 files to explain.

[Vincent Valentijn]

WOW that's great! I presumed it was a bug..
anything beyond the first corner I made with the roof fascia got screwed up.. But I had never tried any other option than doing it in 3D [seemed logical to me, usually I hardly use the planviews in which I see the roofedges.. and the height factor seemed critical to me] Oh.. it has nothing to do with changing the view by the way, in a 'static' 3D it still messes up the connections just as well.
But now.. I tried the -doing it in planview- option and it actually works! :D yahoo!! Now all I wish for is having the sweeplength available in schedule pls.. :wink: go go gadgets in Revit 6!

[shaunv68276]

Beegee
If you hold down your shift-key and your middle mouse button
you swivel around the model to place the host sweeps easily.
There's no need to do it in plan view plus I find it alot easier to do it in 3dview. If you are experiencing further difficulties just send the file and I'll
sort it out for you.

[Vincent Valentijn]

Beegee
If you hold down your shift-key and your middle mouse button
you swivel around the model to place the host sweeps easily.
There's no need to do it in plan view plus I find it alot easier to do it in 3dview. If you are experiencing further difficulties just send the file and I'll
sort it out for you.
Shaun.. looking at the model in 3D isn't the problem I think. The fascia's behavior in connecting to each other is, and that just won't work if you select in 3D..
In simple slabs you won't notice but try making a reversed L shaped fascia to test and you will clearly see what is meant after running around the second corner.

[shaunv68276]

Sorry Vincent, I still don't see the problem
When you place the first sweep, blue contollers appear to orientate the profile, there-after all sides selected match the first. as long as you select along the common top/bottom part of the roof edge. in other words if you start on the top edge, keep going on the top edge. Unfortunatley the edge you are trying to select doesn't highlight like a slab edge, but you can undo the last placement. I tested a number of custom profiles (and even weird ones) along a complicated roof design, placing them in 3D, with no prob :P

[Nic M.]

The thing I have noticed when placing roof fascia / gutters in 3d is that the orientation of the view is considerd.
If you have a simple cube and view it in an isometric view, you can place a gutter on the two "front" walls, if you pick the two "back walls in this view the sweep will shift position
The solution is to rotate the view so the "back" walls become "front" and continue to add segments.
At least thats my experience.

From Belgium
Nic

[Martin P]

When doing an "add remove" to a hosted sweep - has anyone ever actually managed to remove one?? I can only seem to add more, and cant delete an existing one?

[Nic M.]

select the wall sweep
add / remove segment
pick the segment you want to remove

Works for me 100%

From Belgium
Nic

[gregcashen]

When doing an "add remove" to a hosted sweep - has anyone ever actually managed to remove one?? I can only seem to add more, and cant delete an existing one?

I got it to work last night.

[gregcashen]

Sorry Vincent, I still don't see the problem
When you place the first sweep, blue contollers appear to orientate the profile, there-after all sides selected match the first. as long as you select along the common top/bottom part of the roof edge. in other words if you start on the top edge, keep going on the top edge. Unfortunatley the edge you are trying to select doesn't highlight like a slab edge, but you can undo the last placement. I tested a number of custom profiles (and even weird ones) along a complicated roof design, placing them in 3D, with no prob :P

I agree with Shaun. There is no need to do it in 3D...but I find it makes things easier and I don't have to stop and start the command as much. As has been mentioned, in 3D, sometimes it is hard to see the edge you want to click, so you move around the model and you end up having to stop and start. I find it to be quicker in plan, and I can see every edge at once and tell if they are mitering properly. If the roof is overly complex, though, I will sometimes use 3D. More than anything, you just have to make sure you are creating ONE sweep and not stopping and starting without adding to the existing segments.

[Vincent Valentijn]

Sorry Vincent, I still don't see the problem
When you place the first sweep, blue contollers appear to orientate the profile, there-after all sides selected match the first. as long as you select along the common top/bottom part of the roof edge. in other words if you start on the top edge, keep going on the top edge. Unfortunatley the edge you are trying to select doesn't highlight like a slab edge, but you can undo the last placement. I tested a number of custom profiles (and even weird ones) along a complicated roof design, placing them in 3D, with no prob :P

I think I get it now :? .. I select common roofedges but it screws up anyway.. the problem is that I do it in a 3D view -without- changing positions. As you've explained here.. if I select roofedges, and keep on swivelling to have the edge I'm selecting in forward position at the moment I select, it -does- seem to work! What a incredibly stupid bug!! They should put this in the tutorial of the next release.. so users can have a laugh :D ..
Luckly the 2D approach seems to work flawlessly.