Door trim at stacked walls

[dzatto]

Okay, I searched but found nothing.

Here's the problem:
I insert an OOTB door into a stacked wall. It looks fine except the trim is lining up with the brick on the bottom, but shows a gap where the wall transitions to wood siding since they are two different thicknesses. Is there any workaround for this other than deleting the trim? If that's the solution, exactly how do I go about doing that without messing up the original door family?

[cliff collins]

I believe this is happening because the trim is not tied to a reference plane in the family.

Open the family, and see if there is a ref. plane which locks the extrusion of the frame/trim
to the face of the "host wall".

It does get a bit more challenging when loading the door into the project and inserting into a stacked wall--as Revit will have to "decide" which wall to "host" the door into.

You can also specify a dimension with a parameter in the family to "locate" the trim
at a specific distance from the door panel, etc.

See if tweaking the ref. planes and tying the trim to it helps.

cheers.....

[dzatto]

I believe this is happening because the trim is not tied to a reference plane in the family.

Open the family, and see if there is a ref. plane which locks the extrusion of the frame/trim
to the face of the "host wall".

It does get a bit more challenging when loading the door into the project and inserting into a stacked wall--as Revit will have to "decide" which wall to "host" the door into.

You can also specify a dimension with a parameter in the family to "locate" the trim
at a specific distance from the door panel, etc.

See if tweaking the ref. planes and tying the trim to it helps.

cheers.....
I'm not comfortable enough to mess with famiies! lol

I noticed I could pick the host wall, so I chose the upper wall (siding). It looks much better. Not perfect but it will do.

[cliff collins]

cool............

[twiceroadsfool]

The real question is: whats the trim going to do in real life? Once you answer that, fixing it in Revit is easier.

If you picked the upper wall as the host, the trim is now dying in to the stone (on your drawings, at least). Is that what its going to do?

[btrusty]

Okay, I searched but found nothing.

Here's the problem:
I insert an OOTB door into a stacked wall. It looks fine except the trim is lining up with the brick on the bottom, but shows a gap where the wall transitions to wood siding since they are two different thicknesses. Is there any workaround for this other than deleting the trim? If that's the solution, exactly how do I go about doing that without messing up the original door family?

are your doors too close together?
it appears that the width of the vertical trim between the doors is in excess of the width of the wall itself. the 2 center vertical trim do not appear to cover wall, where the external 2 do appear to cover wall...

or am i missing something?

[cliff collins]

I concur with the other posts.

Sounds like a bit of "family counseling" is in order?

cheers.........

[dzatto]

are your doors too close together?
it appears that the width of the vertical trim between the doors is in excess of the width of the wall itself. the 2 center vertical trim do not appear to cover wall, where the external 2 do appear to cover wall...

or am i missing something?
They are overlapping. Actually it's a door and a side light I hastily "threw" into the model. I'm in the process of fumbling around trying to edit an existing door and side light family. I'm starting to understand them a bit better. Wish me luck! :lol:

As for the trim, it's in the concpetual stages right now so I'm not sure exactly how it will be. I'll have to ask my client what his thoughts are. I just didn't want that big gap because that's obviously wrong. The trim dieing into the stone is at least feasible.

[dzatto]

This is giving me a headache. I don't want to ask this because I'm sure it's an easy answer, but here it goes:

I opened an existing door family to edit. There are no reference planes. No dimension parameters. Just the modeling components. What gives? I can't insert a dim or a reference plane. There are already set paramters, so they must be there somewhere, right?

[cliff collins]

Check if visibility settings for annotations are turned off.

cheers....

[dzatto]

Check if visibility settings for annotations are turned off.

cheers....
That revealed 2 dims, but no reference planes. Basically, I copied and edited the single raised panel with 2 side lights that comes with revit and thought I could just delete the raised panel door and insert the glass 2 door. It sorta worked, but when i edit the width of the sidelights the door doesn't stay centered. Since I can't draw a reference plane or dims for some reason (they are greyed out) I can't fix it.

[jmc73]

Okay, I searched but found nothing.

Here's the problem:
I insert an OOTB door into a stacked wall. It looks fine except the trim is lining up with the brick on the bottom, but shows a gap where the wall transitions to wood siding since they are two different thicknesses. Is there any workaround for this other than deleting the trim? If that's the solution, exactly how do I go about doing that without messing up the original door family?
Hi there,

The way I solved this issue was to pick the primary host as the upper wall. But that didn't do it all the way for me (the trim was hidden beneath the brick). So what I had to do was edit the opening cut in the family to extend to the outer edge of the trim.

I ended up with the attached pic. Hope this helps. Families can be a bear, but just remember: DIMENSION TO REF PLANES ONLY! and align/lock your elements to the planes and you'll be in like Flynn ;)


EDIT:

I was looking at your picture again, and I don't know if my suggestion is going to work for this particular situation because you've got a recessed door. If you edit the opening, you'll see behind the trim in 3D into the void the opening creates. My technique will resovlve your issue for plan views, but not 3D views.

[cliff collins]

You would be better served by starting with a new/blank Door Family Template,
which comes with Ref. Planes, etc. ( .rft file )

Save-as from the .rft as a new .rfa as your new door family.
Then load in new door familes ( nested families ) add some shared parameters
and you'll be in BIM land.

Trying to "hack" an older family always has a downside.

just something to consider....

cheers

[dzatto]

Thanks guys. I'll try creating it from scratch and see what I come up with. You'll no doubt be answering more questions from me. lol

Seems like Families are just like dynamic blocks on steroids. Just takes a while to figure them out the first time.

[cliff collins]

Six Phases of Revit

Phase One - Initial Excitement!!!
"Holy ****! Look what I can do with this thing!"

Phase Two - First bump
"Hmmmm...? Why won't it do what I want? That's not how I do it in (insert other cad software here)!"

Phase Three - Creamy Middle
mmm... things are going more smoothly, now......mmmmm"

Phase Four - WTF stage
The family editor "eats you up and spits you out"!

Phase Five - The Enlightenment
Things really begin to click! You understand why things are happening in your model, and better yet how to control them and avoid problems. You have conquered the family editor.

Phase Six - Zen of Revit
You have mastered nearly all things Revit. You "know" what Revit "likes", and what it "dislikes" during model construction, a sixth sense, really. You spend your time exploring and tweaking advanced scheduling, OBDC, external parameters, Mental Ray. You have a template to beat all templates, families for every situation.

cheers........

[dzatto]

Six Phases of Revit

Phase One - Initial Excitement!!!
"Holy ****! Look what I can do with this thing!"

Phase Two - First bump
"Hmmmm...? Why won't it do what I want? That's not how I do it in (insert other cad software here)!"

Phase Three - Creamy Middle
mmm... things are going more smoothly, now......mmmmm"

Phase Four - WTF stage
The family editor "eats you up and spits you out"!

Phase Five - The Enlightenment
Things really begin to click! You understand why things are happening in your model, and better yet how to control them and avoid problems. You have conquered the family editor.

Phase Six - Zen of Revit
You have mastered nearly all things Revit. You "know" what Revit "likes", and what it "dislikes" during model construction, a sixth sense, really. You spend your time exploring and tweaking advanced scheduling, OBDC, external parameters, Mental Ray. You have a template to beat all templates, families for every situation.

cheers........
I've read that before i went to Revit but didn't really understand it. Now I do and boy, is it true. Well, I'm on phase 2, but still have 4 phases to go. Looks like I'll be making friends with the family editor soon.

[dzatto]

Okay, just realized there are view in a family! Duh!.

I see the reference lines in the plan view. When I change my side lite width, the plan looks fine, but in my model the door doesn't stay centered between the two side lites. Any ideas?

[cliff collins]

Without seeing the actual family, try something along these lines:

Use a reference plane at the centerline of the doors, and at the Opening Cut edges.Then place a dimension from the left opening ref. plane to the centerline of the doors to the right side opening ref. plane, and use the EQ control to make the doors always remain
centered. The idea is to "constrain" the doors with ref. planes and a dimension set to equal
so that they maintain a "centered" relalationship when the family types/sizes are changed.

See if the family then "flexes" properly when you change sizes of doors and sidelights, etc. This can take some very exact setting of ref. planes and dimensions. Do a bit of study
from Help>Families Guidelines on these subjects.

Once it flexes, save the family, then load into your project.

Then you have a very powerful set of doors/sidelights to work with.

Good luck and keep us posted.

cheers........

[dzatto]

Without seeing the actual family, try something along these lines:

Use a reference plane at the centerline of the doors, and at the Opening Cut edges.Then place a dimension from the left opening ref. plane to the centerline of the doors to the right side opening ref. plane, and use the EQ control to make the doors always remain
centered. The idea is to "constrain" the doors with ref. planes and a dimension set to equal
so that they maintain a "centered" relalationship when the family types/sizes are changed.

See if the family then "flexes" properly when you change sizes of doors and sidelights, etc. This can take some very exact setting of ref. planes and dimensions. Do a bit of study
from Help>Families Guidelines on these subjects.

Once it flexes, save the family, then load into your project.

Then you have a very powerful set of doors/sidelights to work with.

Good luck and keep us posted.

cheers........
Does it matter what view the reference planes and dims are in? I ask this only because in the front view, reference planes and dims are greyed out and can't be used. In plan view, the reference planes are already there. SO if I added more planes in plan view, will it translate to the other views?

[cliff collins]

Reference planes are truly "planes"--not just lines, so they are 3D and appear in all views
where they have their display turned on.

Reference Lines and Reference Points are different animals....... esp. in the new Conceptual Massing environment.

So--you can place the reference planes in a Plan View, and then see them in other views as well. Use the "Show workplane" tool to turn them on.

cheers........