Trimming structural members

[dzatto]

I've read several posts that it is possible in Structural, but not RAC to trim a sloped beam to a column. Did this ever get fixed in RAC? Is there a work around?

[cliff collins]

see the attached document about Subscription Advantage Pack.
There are new structural tools which include coping of steel members, etc.
It is available if you are on subscription on the website.

see attched jpg of coped sloped steel connection made with the above add-in.

cheers........

[dzatto]

see the attached document about Subscription Advantage Pack.
There are new structural tools which include coping of steel members, etc.
It is available if you are on subscription on the website.

see attched jpg of coped sloped steel connection made with the above add-in.

cheers........
Thanks for this info. I have the advantage pack installed but I don't think that's the situation I'm dealing with. I have a timber column with a timber roof beam at a 3:12 slope butting into it. That's where I need to trim the roof beam plum. Basically all the connections need to be trimmed in the attached image. Is that possible?

I noticed when I mirroed the top beam to create the other side of the sloped ceiling, it trimmed automatically. There has to be a way to do it, I hope.

[cliff collins]

Use a vertical reference plane, and then use Cut Geometry to trim the sloping beam.

see attached.

cheers.......

[dzatto]

Dude! I don't care what Dave says about you, you're all right. :beer:

[cliff collins]

Dave's not here, man!

cheers

[dzatto]

almost there. All but 2 worked. It's giving me an error that the elements do not intersect. BUt they clearly do. Any tips or tricks I should know about. I've deleted them, redrawn, moved, streteched. Nothing is working.

[cliff collins]

Make sure that the REF. PLANE and the sloped beam intersect ( not the timber column. )
Check in a 3D view and use Show Work Plane.

Other than that, it should work.

Perhaps post an example .rvt ?

cheers......

[dzatto]

ahhhh nevermind. I'm still thinking like an ACA user. The beam has to actually go past the reference plan in order to be cut. I was thinking being in line was good enough. When you trim beams in ACA it will trim or extend automatically depending on where the beam is. Cut is cut, not extend. Got it. Another lesson learned. :beer:

[JotaG]

Is there any way to choose the side you want to cut? It seems that always choose the longest one.

I'm trying to cut a profile beam (precast hollow-core) longitudinally... no way

[david_peterson]

Also note that the members you are trying to trim, need to have a reference plane on that side. Note that some of the OOTB HSS members don't have them (or at least didn't in 2009). Also note that if you want to copy them and you've place a ref plane as a cutting plane, when you group them you need to grab the ref plane as well.
You could also try the truss design tool if that was part of the advantage pack. Not sure what all came with RA.
So are you missing your trim planes yet?

[dzatto]

Also note that the members you are trying to trim, need to have a reference plane on that side. Note that some of the OOTB HSS members don't have them (or at least didn't in 2009). Also note that if you want to copy them and you've place a ref plane as a cutting plane, when you group them you need to grab the ref plane as well.
You could also try the truss design tool if that was part of the advantage pack. Not sure what all came with RA.
So are you missing your trim planes yet?
OH yes! Definately. I must say that so far, overall, I'm in love with Revit. No Xref's makes all the other issues small potatos!! But there are still some things ACA does better, like trimming structural members.

It's hard for me to get my head around all these reference planes and such. Especially Families. I'm sooooooo lost on families it's not even funny.

Then again, I've just started so I'm sure a lot of issues will arise.

[david_peterson]

That was generally the good part about ACA, the content worked the way it was supposed to. I hope they've fixed it by now, then again, we don't use any of the Adesk content, we've fixed it all and are using our own now.
Be careful when you start trimming ends and coping and cutting geometry.
When you go back to modify it, I've found it only works about 50% of the time. The other 50% you're better off deleting the object and placing a new one. Voids in walls are the worst.
For most of your projects I think Revit is a good fit for what you do. The project sizes I've seen you do in the past make it a good fit. Once you break the 100ksf mark, things start to slow down.

[dzatto]

That was generally the good part about ACA, the content worked the way it was supposed to. I hope they've fixed it by now, then again, we don't use any of the Adesk content, we've fixed it all and are using our own now.
Be careful when you start trimming ends and coping and cutting geometry.
When you go back to modify it, I've found it only works about 50% of the time. The other 50% you're better off deleting the object and placing a new one. Voids in walls are the worst.
For most of your projects I think Revit is a good fit for what you do. The project sizes I've seen you do in the past make it a good fit. Once you break the 100ksf mark, things start to slow down.
I'm not even close to that. My commercial buildings are 5-7K and my custom homes are 8-20k. For all the things Revit seems to stumble with, it does other things sooooo much easier. Holes in walls for instance. If I have a wall that is 5 components thick, one tool cuts a hole in all of them instead of creating a solid and subtracting it from each component. Walls seem to clean up easier too. It just seems a bit more intuitive.

[dzatto]

One final "cut to reference plane" question.

The custom homes I work on always have exposed timbers at the gable ends, porches, and interior at the ceiling. Lots of trimming and cutting and reference planes.

a. Reference planes don't plot, right? I've got tons of them in my drawing for every cut of every timber.

b. Is this the correct way to do it? I mean, like I said, I have TONS of reference planes all over the damn place. lol

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[cliff collins]

Another way is to make a custom family for the rafter tails, cut out the scrolled shape with a void.

see this:

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=59525&highlight=rafter+ends

cheers

[dzatto]

Another way is to make a custom family for the rafter tails, cut out the scrolled shape with a void.

see this:

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=59525&highlight=rafter+ends

cheers
That would work for the tails, but what about where the rafters meet the columns and the braces and all that? Seems like reference planes and the cut command are the way to go. I just wanted to make sure that a drawing with a ton of reference planes in it wasn't uncommon.

[david_peterson]

Either way will work.
You can also use the opening by face as well.
Depending on how you want the tail cut, that may work better. Otherwise ref planes are it.
Remember when you make one, you can make it a group, take the ref planes as part of that group and can copy them.

[RobG]

what about concrete structural members? i have a column and beam situation that is driving me up the wall. Don't have access to Revit Structures, and I can't get the panels/beams to connect to the center of the column.

any ideas?

[david_peterson]

Ok, those are PCC members and the offset you are seeing I believe is controlled with the cutback setting. set that to 0 and you should be ok. Also in your example you'd want the beam to connect tot the face, and cut back a bit. It also depends on how you made that column.
PCC members and Concrete beams act much differently. 2 totally different family types.

[RobG]

it's a column and beam that was made by someone in the office, and i'm not seeing the cutback setting anywhere... for some reason i've always had issues with structural stuff.