Revit and Residential?

[gjburkett]

Hi guys, Newbie here. I'll stick this thread here, but feel free to move it to the appropriate forum if there's a better one.

I'm currently looking to move on from 2D AutoCAD to producing 3D models that I'll use to create construction documents and renderings. The only 3D experience I have is with ADT, but that was awhile ago and I really didn't care for it (especially for residential). Anyway, my questions are this... I'm looking for an unbiased opinion because we all know one program is better than another at certain things but lack where the other excels. I guess what I'm saying is there is no "perfect" product that suits everyone. Ok, so we are an architecture firm and the work we do is residential (custom homes). First of all, which is better at residential, Revit or ArchiCAD? Again, I’m looking for an unbiased opinion (hopefully from someone that’s used both). I'm fine with someone saying "Revit is so much better at everything else, but if you're into residential only, ArchiCAD might be better for you". My second question is, would you say both ArchiCAD and Revit are "overkill" for residential only firms and you'd be better off with a residential product such as Softplan or Chief Architect? I greatly appreciate anyone’s feedback on this.

Scott Davis? You there? You told me to post here. :)

[mjfarrell]

Scott Davis? You there? You told me to post here. :)


Looks like a plant........are you a plant? :wink:

Interesting that you would come to a PRO AutoDESK
site and ask if some other product might be better? ! ?
:p

[thomas.stright]

Interesting that you would come to a PRO AutoDESK
site and ask if some other product might be better? ! ?
:p
And post in the wrong fourm on top of that...:lol:

[mjfarrell]

And post in the wrong fourm on top of that...:lol:


The wrong Forum I can forgive Thomas; as for months I chided
the Forum powers about certain *Ease of Use* issues with the
website only to be continually rebuked.
This sort of mis-posting is fairly rampant only they continue to insist
nothing needs to be changed. Empirical evidence suggests otherwise. :screwy:

[blads]

Hi,

you would have been better to post your query HERE (http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6) but having said that I've been using REVIT for the past 2+ years and it ROCKS!!!.

Previously I had been using ADT. (v1 to 3.3). I'm a owner/operator of a building design practice in South Australia, specializing in the ESD residential sector of the marketplace.

I'm probably no longer unbiased about Revit but IMHO its ease of use, 3D modelling, document management capabilities are an absolute joy to ease and I'm constantly saying to my wife, "I Love Revit" , without doubt the best piece of software for the architectural community!

Hope that helps

[mjfarrell]

For no other reason than curiosity; what is ESD???

[beegee]

Ecologically Sustainable Development.




For no other reason than curiosity; what is ESD???

[blads]

or Environmentally Sustainable Design

[BomberAIA]

Revit is great for residential. You don't have to model everything. If you see it in other views as interior elevations of kitchens & baths, you need to model the fixtures & millwork. If not, just put 2d objects in the plans. I have produced a 6,000 sf custom home in Revit.

[gjburkett]

Sorry for the wrong forum post. Actually, I posted it there because it had the most hits. The forum layout is kind of confusing for this question, so I just stuck it there for the most people to see it and move it to it's appropriate forum. Also, I was looking for a Revit General, but didn't see it. Seems a little complicated. :)

I guess what I'm looking for is to see if anyone has used any of the other programs that I metioned (ArchiCAD, SoftPlan, Chief Architect) for residential and find out what would best suit me. We're not really design/build... more design. My set includes a site plan, foundation plan, floor plans, elevations, electrical plans and interior elevations with a section through 2 story homes only. I posted the same question in the ArchiCAD forum and Scott told me to post here also so he can really tell me all about it. I'm assuming he likes Revit better, but didn't want to say anything on the "other" software board.

I should add that I looked at Revit last month, but gave up because I don't agree with the yearly charge. I should be able to update when I want and not be penalized because I didn't meet a deadline.

[gjburkett]

Revit is great for residential. You don't have to model everything. If you see it in other views as interior elevations of kitchens & baths, you need to model the fixtures & millwork. If not, just put 2d objects in the plans. I have produced a 6,000 sf custom home in Revit.
The key there is the "time" it took you. I do pretty well in 2d and I've gotten fast at it. I'm looking for even more efficiency. Softplan and Chief Architect are programs made solely for residential and you can spit out your CD's set in half the time that I can in 2d (so they say). I have a huge question mark about Revit and ArchiCAD because they're geared more for the commercial (so I've read). Also, I'm gathering Revit and AC might be "overkill" for my needs. They might be a lot more than what I need and that I should stick with a program that handles residential as their primary target such as SP or CA. Or should I? That's why I'm postin here and on AC sites. :)

[Scott D Davis]

gjburkett, (TexasTechGrad) :)

Thanks for posting here! Looks like the moderators got your post into the right forum, under Revit General.

To the others, this is not a "plant" as I truely did ask him to post his question here.

Autodesk subscription is an awesome program. It assured you get the latest release of the software, no matter how many verions or point releases come out.

Revit is on a rapid release cycle, which means there will be a full new version, feature-packed with new stuff, every year. Revit 7.0 just came out, and Revit 8.0 is anticipated in the spring of 2005 along with Revit Structural. Then Revit 9.0 will be spring 2006 along with Revit Systems (MEP), 10.0 spring 2007.....etc.

If you do not upgrade each of these releases, you will be so far behind the competition, it will be ridiculous. These are no longer the days of buying AutoCAD r14 and using it for 10 years.

You are looking into ArchiCAD...the same will be true there. Buy 9.0....but when 10.0 comes out, you will want to upgrade to that. The software companies are not 'forcing' you to upgrade, but software technology and computer technology will be the driving forces behind almost a certain necessity to upgrade.

Autodesk is aware of this, and offering you perhaps one of the best, cheapest solutions to do so in the Subscription program. Should you choose to stick with a certain version of Revit, cancel your subscription and use your current version for as long as you want. You will regret thta decision.

As for an unbiased opinion, I'm not the on to give it. I love Revit, and haven't used ArchiCAD, so I'll let others answer that for you. But, you should download the fully functional 60 day trial and compare it to ArchiCAD. (problem is, you wont be able to get a fully functioning copy of ArchiCAD to compare...although you can download a canned video)

[rhys]

Yes thats right, even better if you're doing a small residential project, 60 days should be long enough to, train yourself, say a whole weekend running through the tutorials. Then Monday go for it. Do the GA's floors plans only - bail out if you don't like it export to DWG or whatever. You won't because you'll have done most of the elevations too. You'll want to keep going. If after 60 days you are still haven't made your mind up then export to DWG nothing lost and you'll have learned the whole BIM and 3D concept which will help you compare all the other products. All for free what a deal.

[beegee]

Here is a quick selection of threads that discuss Revit and residential work and , in some cases, other software.



Chief Architect vs Revit in Res Work (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=10132&highlight=residential+revit)



Framing tutorials (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=9552&highlight=residential+revit)



Revit or ADT with VisionREZ (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=8823&highlight=residential+revit)



2D deliverables - Who's faster, AutoCAD or Revit? (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=8215&highlight=residential+revit)



Residential Design in Revit - Possible? (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=3826&highlight=residential+revit)



Residential framing (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=1269&highlight=residential+revit)



Residential cd's with Revit (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=1663&highlight=residential+revit)

[gjburkett]

I guess what scares me about Revit is what Scott says is the rapid releases. Why so many so fast? I understand this was Revit's thing before AutoDesk bought it, but I'm surprised AutoDesk is continuing it. I'm all for getting on a subscription plan, but it seems like they should release a new version every 2 years. One year releases makes it seem like they are basically ripping the customers. If ArchiCAD had a new release every year, then it would be a no brainer. However, as it is, I think it's a release every 2 years or sometimes more. Finally, why so many improvements? Shouldn't it be done right the first time? :) Obvioiusly I don't mean that literally, but you know what I mean. Rapid releases makes it seem like there's always problems.

And how much do you save on a subscription if I, say, I bought version 7 but decided to wait until version 9? Also, what about ArchiCAD... What if I bought their version 9 and then bought version 10 when it comes out, but it doesn't take until 2 years to release?

You're right. As I said on the other board, I've narrowed it down to Revit and ArchiCAD and have done away with Softplan and Chief Architect. I guess trying 2 programs is a lot better than 4. I'll have to try the demos and see. I was hoping to narrow it down to one so I didn't have to waste time learning the other one that I'm not going to end up using anyway. :)

[Scott D Davis]

Why the rapid release cycle? Don't interpret that as Revit is lacking in any way. The developers just understand that they must continually improve the software, adding features and tools, and improving upon the technology. Just think, if you bought a computer two years ago, and bought the fastest computer you could, at most it was a Pentium III 1 Ghz. As computer technology increases, the Revit team takes advantage of the performance increase to deliver more. This model has been committed to many Autodesk products, including AutoCAD and the vertical products (ADT, MDT, etc). I would expect ArchiCAD to follow this model as well, or they are gonna be left behind....

Just think....Spring 2005, Revit 8.0 and Revit Structures. Spring 2006, Revit 9.0 and Revit Systems (MEP) I can't even imagine how mind blowing this software is going to be when 9.0 comes out. I have been using Revit since 1.0, and I was blown away then. But at that time, Revit didn't do CD's very well. Now, in Revit 6.1 and 7.0, SOM is designing and producing CD's for the Freedom Tower at the WTC site.

In 25 Years, ArchiCAD has had 9 major releases. In my opinion, they have not kept up with technology. With 25 years of experince in BIM or Virtual Building as they call it, ArchiCAD should be the most used/most accpeted Architecural package in the world......but it's not. In the computer world, two year old software is as outdated as the computer it runs on. (although I'm still running Revit 5.1 on my PIII 450 at home! :shock: )

Subscription programs maximize your return on investment. I know I'm getting the lastest and greatest every single year. If Revit were to wait 2 years between releases, I would feel like I was being ripped off! (The original release cycle of Revit was 3 months, then 6 months. It expanded to a year at the Autodesk aquisition)

Just get Revit. I guurantee you will not be disappointed. It's easy to learn, and a joy to work with. It's just a better way of working. :grin: And it continues to get even better every year! You will have fun working again, and your work will be improved, because your documents will always be consistent and coordinated.

If you want to hear some more, there is a webcast on Dec 8 from a firm Architecture Plus and how they are using Revit. Sign up here: http://www.adskhost.net/9304/9304_outside.php

Hope that helps you make the right decision....good luck and be sure to continue checking in here at AUGI when you have made the right choice, and have any questions about Revit!

[Les Therrien]

Unlike ADT and other software, the rapid release does not mean you have to re-learn a new software everytime!
The development of Revit is always nice little additions or improvements to the function of the software. Icons and such are not suddenly moved from here to there or re-done so you have to re-learn how to do a command.
The improvements are added in such a way that you can learn them whenever you wish.

[Scott D Davis]

Just found out something else about ArchiCAD:

Window library objects from versions as early as 6.5 are not compatible with the newest version 9.0. So if you have older components, they wont work, you'll have to rebuild them using GDL. Revit's objects are upward comaptible. I can still open a window from 1.0 in 7.0.

[gjburkett]

Now, in Revit 6.1 and 7.0, SOM is designing and producing CD's for the Freedom Tower at the WTC site.
I have no doubt that Revit is powerful enough to do that, that's why I was concerned with it being "overkill" since residential is so much easier to do.

As for upgrading, I have no problem with upgrades. I think it's a must. I'm not really for rapid "releases" in software and hardware. Back to your example, I bought a P4 1.8Ghz 2 years ago and still use it today. It runs all my programs and it is extremely fast it. Even with the lastest technology like games. I play a lot of games. The ones that release every year are usually the sports games. However, some years, you're basically getting the same game as the year before, only with new rosters. Why not create a patch that covers this? My concern is a yearly release seems a little much. Like I said, I'm all for updates. However, why not just create patches and have it last a couple years and then release a new version where it's not rushed and contains all the latest and greatest goodies? That way it's more appealing to everyone and no one feels they have to commit to something so long term.

And where are the smilie codes here. lol

[richard.35524]

Just found out something else about ArchiCAD:

Window library objects from versions as early as 6.5 are not compatible with the newest version 9.0. So if you have older components, they wont work, you'll have to rebuild them using GDL. Revit's objects are upward comaptible. I can still open a window from 1.0 in 7.0.

Scott, this is not correct. AC v9.0 windows are not compatible with EARLIER versions, in the same way that Revit 7.0 files are not compatible with earlier versions. Library objects from 6.5 are quite compatible with AC v9.0, just not as "smart".

While we are here on this topic of objects, I should say that I am a longtime user of both AC and Chief Architect, and respect them for what they can do, but am always keeping my eyes open for something better. I am very impressed with Revit in the big picture, but the lack of really detailed residential library elements would keep me from jumping ship. Revit's elements seem, well, a little generic. Most of my clients are fairly high-end, and I am accustomed to putting in a fairly realistic 48" Viking range, for example, in renderings. Both Chief and AC have extensive libraries (often 3rd party) of furniture, cabinet door styles, window treatments, etc. available.

Is there some source that I've missed for acquiring elements such as these in Revit? (like the Modern Medium stuff, but more extensive selection.)

[Scott D Davis]

Sorry, must have misread that off the ArchiCAD forums...someone posted that 6.5 was NOT compatible with 9.0....so maybe they were wrong??? :-? (edit: went back and re-read...i was wrong! I really thought i read it the other way around, because it really took me by surprise!)

Manufacturers are getting on board. But you could always build the Viking range in not too much time if you couldn't find it. Ultimately, we need to get on the manufacturers...tell them you need a Revit model of their range, or you wont be spec'ing their product.

If you have DWG files of the range, make a 2D family that represents all views. Basically contains the same representation without the 3D overhead....unless you need it for perspective views/renderings.

[Les Therrien]

I do mostly residential.
I researched Revit for about a year before I made the plunge.
It it an incredible tool. The way I can approach design now is a huge benefit for me and my clients. I would not say it is overkill for Resdiential. Sure it has a lot of capabilities, but you'll find that you migth actually use most of them, the more you use Revit. As your template becomes more refined, you'll explore other ways to improve your process.
When I use to use ADT, I was very mad at how much of the software I really never could use. I can promise you that Revit is not like that.
If you want more detail instead of me rambling on, feel free to PM me and we can take it from there.

[mmodernc]

Does Chief Architect get all the framing right all the time or do you have to go back and tweak it?

[richard.35524]

Does Chief Architect get all the framing right all the time or do you have to go back and tweak it?

I doubt ANY program would get it right ALL the time. It comes pretty darn close maybe 90-95% of the time, and it's very easy to edit in any case. Drawing a complete 3D truss is as simple as dragging a line across the roof, and it will automatically snap to correct roof angles and eave projections. You can open the truss and adjust individual members, add kingposts and the like, if you wish.

Similarly, drawing rafters or joists is just dragging a line (to create both 3D & 2D), but the first pass at drawing framing can be done automatically. If it's a little off, you can set a new reference point and just rebuild framing. I don't know much about Revit's framing capabilities, but I doubt it's as slick as Chief's. You might want to take a look at http://www.dbtec.com/html/free_tutorials.html for some brief demo movie clips and see what you think.

[gjburkett]

After asking EVERYONE about Softplan and Chief Architect, I have learned that Softplan is better at Construction Documents while Chief Architect is better at renderings and cabinets. I also heard that Chief Architect is a lot buggier than Softplan. It was a lot easier to find unbiased opinions about these two programs.

[Steve_Stafford]

...It was a lot easier to find unbiased opinions about these two programs...By this do you mean the negative aspects of them?

Only you can define what you expect from software. Do you provide 20 sheets to document a house or 4? Do you do log homes? Do you design and build homes that use unconventional construction methods? Do you hire consultants to do MEP and S...interior design?

Sooner or later you are going to have to try them. If it were my time and money I'd try Revit first, do the "Getting Started With Revit" tutorial. Then do some of the other process oriented tutorials under Revit Help. You can do quite a lot in one afternoon.

Then get a demo of AC or have someone demo it for you. Be sure to make changes to the design in both.

[Martin P]

I don't know much about Revit's framing capabilities, but I doubt it's as slick as Chief's. You might want to take a look at http://www.dbtec.com/html/free_tutorials.html for some brief demo movie clips and see what you think.

Revit doesnt really have any timber framing tools as such, you will have to do framing drawings pretty much yourself I think, or make some families etc - which may get complicated..... We dont produce timber frame schedules etc in our office so it presents no problems for us, if you do these regularly I doubt that either Archicad or Revit are going to offer you much in the of automating these. I know I could if I needed to produce timber framing drawings with Revit - but as I have never tried I cant comment on how easy or not it would be.

We use Revit on a lot of Residential work - perfect tool for it, far from overkill. we have an architect who was using Archicad before he worked with us - he prefers Revit.

[gjburkett]

So if it doesn't do framing for you, what does it show where there's supposed to be framing when you cut sections? We don't do framing either, but we do cut sections so I'm curious there.

Do you happen to have any examples of your residentail construction documents done with Revit?

[Roger Evans]

I have yet to try this but Sarah Capes suggested a while ago that you could try framing as a curtain wall ~ has anyone tried it ?

[Scott D Davis]

So if it doesn't do framing for you, what does it show where there's supposed to be framing when you cut sections? We don't do framing either, but we do cut sections so I'm curious there.

Do you happen to have any examples of your residentail construction documents done with Revit?
You place detail compontents in your section views...so you would place 2D representations of your studs. No need to burden the whole model with studs when you only need to show them in sections and details.

[BillyGrey]

@ gjburkett:

I think it is easy to get hung up on things like framing tools that produce pretty pictures.
Real world construction documents rarely contain such data, and in fact, as far as framing goes, unless it is engineering specific, or spec'd by the architect/designer, the carpenter is gonna do it his way anyway.

That said, it sounds to me like you may not totally understand Revit's capabilities. If it does not do "framing", that doesn't mean it doesn't do walls. Sections are one of Revit's biggest assets.
In fact, in that sense, it blows away anything on the market imo anything .
But like any other prog, you get out what you put into it.

Here is an example of a home that has made it through plan check in my jurisdiction.
It is not highly detailed, but conveys intent nicely. After I modeled my design, I cut the sections depicted, and added in some detail info.

No biggy.

HTH

Bill Cooper

[Bim Man]

we are a semi custom homebuilder in Columbus Ohio and as far as i know we are the only ones using revit for our output of designs in our area. by semi custom i mean we have 45 baseplans and allow the homeowner to do what ever they want to the home to make it their own house not your typical "cookie cutter home builder". we do approx. 150 to 180 homes a year and revit is working great. we were able to merge some of our marketing into revit the creation of home brochures. we looked at revit, archicad, and softplan and actually chose softplan at first. we kept it fro 90 days and sent it back and went with revit. what sold us on revit was how every thing is linked, there is no "dead views" no matter where you are any change you make is changed where ever else it occurs in the drawing. in other words not having to make the same change more than once. they only down fall i have with revit is the ability to mirror a plan. but the other pluses of the program out weigh that issue and hopefully revit will be able to do this in the future. once that happens i will have no complaints.

Pete

[beegee]

............. only down fall i have with revit is the ability to mirror a plan. but the other pluses of the program out weigh that issue and hopefully revit will be able to do this in the future. once that happens i will have no complaints.
Pete
Have you tried this with 7.0. ? The improvements with groups are making this a much simplier process than what it used to be.

[Bim Man]

i have not. i havn't had the time to really check out all of 7's new features. although i am using and have upgraded. where my problem comes in is that most of my dims and notes need some redoing once i flip the plan.

[gjburkett]

I love the fact that's it parametric. However, if you make a change, how does it automatically correct that on the electrical plan? Seems like that would have to have some manual assistance no matter what, right?

Thanks for the sample. That's what I'm looking for. Looks good. And you're right about the framing. It's up to the builder and like I said, I don't care since we don't worry about it anyway. I was just curious about what shows up when you cut a section. Anyway, how does Revit handle complicated roofs? Good, bad, average?

[Bim Man]

i am leaving the office now i will try to post agtain when i get home to list some more

[mmodernc]

If you group a plan that includes details such as tags and text it creates a parent group of the model elements and a child group of the detail elements("attached detail group").
If you select the parent group and mirror it only the model elements will be mirrored (and copied if copy is selected). However if you select the parent group and CTRL select the child group then both are mirrored.
Has anybody done any serious work with groups in Revit 7.0?

[BillyGrey]

Roofs?

Well, when I first got into it, I gave it a C based on my lack of knowledge of the prog.
Now it gets a B-B+, again, probably based on my knowledge level.

You really have to do some serious work within the tool to get it wired. But I know that if I design a working roof in Revit, it will work in the real world. It's the nature of the program.

I'm designing a roof as we speak, it looks pretty standard/gable-ish, except for the fact it has a 10/12 pitch, a 12/12 pitch, a 4/12 pitch, and three plate heights. All connected.

It does some pretty impressive residential roofs, but if you decide to purchase, please lean on some of the experienced Revit roofers here to get your motor running. It can do continuous rubber band style layouts, but on some complex roofs you have to build it in portions of the roof, just like the real world.

HTH

Bill

[Martin P]

I have yet to try this but Sarah Capes suggested a while ago that you could try framing as a curtain wall ~ has anyone tried it ?

what about the new beam systems too..... I think if you tried it and knew what you were doing, it would be fairly straight forward using curtain walls and beam systems.... I am tempted to have a go..



Residential drawing examples

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=3165

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=7305

[gjburkett]

Thanks for all the good feedback. I think if I had to choose between Revit and ArchiCAD, I'd go with Revit (hands down). However, I may have turned back to Softplan after more research. Autodesk's current reputation with customers is continuing to fall and it doesn't look like Revit does cabinet designs very well which is also crucial. With the rapid updates that Scott pointed out, maybe they'll start to incoporate more residential features sometime in the near future. Ya'll keep hounding them on the wishlist forum for "residential, residential and more residential features." :) I'm still going to mess with the Revit demo, but it doesn't look like something I will use at my current job. Thanks again.

[richard.35524]

it doesn't look like Revit does cabinet designs very well which is also crucial.

If cabinets are important to you, you'd better look at Softplan very carefully in this department. When I had it demo'd, the only way to get different cabinet door styles in 3D was to map cabinet door photos on top of a generic 3D box, which didn't produce any 2D lines for elevations. So you had to pretty much manually draw it all in 2D. One of the major reasons I was unwilling to consider Softplan further.

Chief blows away Softplan in the cabinet department. (Dozens of 3D cabinet door styles.) As far as it being buggy, I doubt it's any buggier than any other program at this point.

[hand471037]

well, you can do any cabinets you want to in Revit. you just have to build families that are more residential-cabinet like (where it's one big unit with custom doors) vs. what it ships with (which are more like commercial & multi-unit housing, where it's all modular units).

However, I do understand that Softplan has a nice Cabinet-making tool that's fairly automated. But I'd never really say that Revit is 'weak' at all in regards to cabinets, I've been able to do both kinds without issue. However, it is not as automated as it is in softplan, and that is true. However those very-automated tools I'm sometimes wary of, for they can be limiting (altho fast).

[jarod.tulanowski]

I have never used those other programs, but what a friend of mine told me (autodesk reseller) a large residential firm in my area just switched all of there users off of soft plan in favor of Revit. I have designed a few houses already in Revit, and I love it. Sorry for the non information about the other programs, but this is my two cents

[Bim Man]

jarod who would that be, i am from columbus, other than joshua homes i knew that duffy homes was looking at. but as far as the change i thought it was only us here at joshua. more user's in the area would be great we could get a local group of users together.

[gjburkett]

If cabinets are important to you, you'd better look at Softplan very carefully in this department. When I had it demo'd, the only way to get different cabinet door styles in 3D was to map cabinet door photos on top of a generic 3D box, which didn't produce any 2D lines for elevations. So you had to pretty much manually draw it all in 2D. One of the major reasons I was unwilling to consider Softplan further.

Chief blows away Softplan in the cabinet department. (Dozens of 3D cabinet door styles.) As far as it being buggy, I doubt it's any buggier than any other program at this point.
Yes, I realize that something like Chief is better at cabinets than Softplan, but Softplan is better at construction documents than Chief and that's more important to me. BTW, you said you demo'd Softplan. How? There is no demo available.

[Bim Man]

our demo was for 90 day trial. after that we had to buy. we got it through a reseller. but sent it back.

[gjburkett]

our demo was for 90 day trial. after that we had to buy. we got it through a reseller. but sent it back.
That can't be the current version, 12. Now it's you have to buy it, but you have a 90 money back guarantee. In other words, if you want to "Demo" it, you have to pony up the cash to try it out and return it for a refund in 90 days if you don't like it.

Anyway, I lied. I'm back on Revit as being my favorite. If it's not the best now, it has the potential to be later on. I'm afraid with Softplan, and Chief Architect for that matter, there's no guarantee for them being around forever. Revit is the direction everyone is going to and if they don't have what I need now, I can feel pretty confident they'll have it soon. I still hate how their customer services department is continuing to get worse, but one can hope that they'll improve.

Probably one of my final questions until I start really getting into it an start joining other threads.... Does a Revit subscription offer pro-rated fees? In otherwords, if I jump in the subscription and get release 7, but 4 months later version 8 comes out, will they refund the 8 months worth that I paid for that I didn't need?

BTW, Scott Davis pulled me away from the ArchiCAD forums. Are there any ArchiCAD users here that visit a lot?

[mmodernc]

With all the tools available for families now including yes/no parameters and conditional formulae and also with advanced scheduling tools you should be able to set up your own cabinet system any way you like and to fit into industry standards.
I have not seen anything that will match Revits "parametric change engine" i.e. it keeps all your changes automatically up to date everywhere.

[beegee]

Probably one of my final questions until I start really getting into it an start joining other threads.... Does a Revit subscription offer pro-rated fees? In otherwords, if I jump in the subscription and get release 7, but 4 months later version 8 comes out, will they refund the 8 months worth that I paid for that I didn't need?

Your subscription isn't tied to a release. It entitles you use all releases that come out during your subscription. If there were to be 4 releases in a year ( there won't be, so don't panic ) you would get to use all 4.

[Scott D Davis]

I still hate how their customer services department is continuing to get worse, but one can hope that they'll improve.Are you talking about Revit customer support?? If so, I can't say that I agree! Revit support has been nothing but the best for the majority of us. In fact, they recently won a "Stevie" award for the Best Customer Support in a software company.

[gjburkett]

Are you talking about Revit customer support?? If so, I can't say that I agree! Revit support has been nothing but the best for the majority of us. In fact, they recently won a "Stevie" award for the Best Customer Support in a software company.
No, that's not what I'm saying. There's a difference between customer support and customer service. :)

Your subscription isn't tied to a release. It entitles you use all releases that come out during your subscription. If there were to be 4 releases in a year ( there won't be, so don't panic ) you would get to use all 4.
So is the subscription based on yearly time frame? If I join the subscription (in March after my demo is up), its' good for a year no matter what? I'd be on version 7 and if 8 comes out in September, it wouldn't matter because my subscription doesn't run out until the next March??

[beegee]

So is the subscription based on yearly time frame? If I join the subscription (in March after my demo is up), its' good for a year no matter what? I'd be on version 7 and if 8 comes out in September, it wouldn't matter because my subscription doesn't run out until the next March??
That's correct. But 8.0 will be out in spring ( yours ) anyway.

[christopher.zoog51272]

yup it would last until next march... you can pretty much be sure that you will recieve at least two releases in that time frame, by march of 2006 we should be at 8.1 getting ready for 9.0 :shock:

[dalewww]

gjburkett:

Here is my two cents. I have used Softplan, Vectorworks, Archicad, Autocad, and now Revit. Softplan is a great tool for simple builder type houses. Very fast and easy to use. Renderings are decent. But is definatly geared for smaller simpler designed projects.
Vectorworks is along the same lines yet a bit better at some things. Yet can be very cumbersome. Autocad is 2D--not an issue here.

Now Archicad I begain using at Version 4.0 and worked through 7.0. I love this program. The business I am in is High end custom residential with light commercial work. I am a constant seeker of better programs. When I got into Archicad I said I would never leave. The tools, functionality, add-ons, general internal renderings are all outstanding. There are of course the downfalls like plotting. But you must take some negative with so much possitve.
Since I have used 3D software I have had a beef against Autocad as being the leader in the architecturl field that I said I would never use an Autodesk product again. So I got my current firm to switch from Autocad to Archicad. I loved it even more. But someone else headed the projects up and messed the whole process up and squashed the use or Archicad in the office.
So being back on Autocad and in an office with all Autocad lovers ( they have been on it their whole lives and have not expierienced anything else). So I decided to look into Revit. I knew of it when they first came out with 1.0 and followed them. I was actually excited about it and realized that Revit was a serious program. One that was gaining on the market of Archicad. So I took a closer look and was even more impressed. However, would not consider it because, as always, Autodesk bought it.
Once Autodesk bought it other people in my firm saw this and got excited. They spend 2-1/2 years trying to convince the principles to get Revit. Now I am the one stuck with setting it up because I have the most experience.
I have only been on Revit for about 4 weeks now and WOW! Floor plan layout is faster than any other program, and everything else just follows behind. The program is more intuitive than any other. I am impressed with what it can do for the work flow that we have. I will tell you that the user setup to make things look the same as what you are doing now is time consuming and hard to do---THERE ARE NO BOOKS TO REFERENCE TO LEARN ANYTHING. The tutorials don't go indepth enough and some of the help files are missing items you might need to know about. If there was a downfall to Revit that I see so far that I have used extensively in other programs (Archicad) mainly has to do with 3D viewing. I have not found how to get an axo of just one floor plan-shaded it and place it on a sheet. I have not found a way to do a 3D cut away, shaded it, render it and place it on a sheet. I cannot stand the very poor quality renderings it produces, almost the worst that I have seen in this price point of software. Archicad's internal renderer is leaps and bounds better than Revits. I think in 9.0, Archicad has added a new one that is even better.
However, right now for me, it would be a very hard choice to make. I am so much faster at Archicad, though I have not been on it for 3-1/2 years. I do think from what I have seen from Revit, it has a huge future in front of it. I think it is faster and more intuitive. That is a big part of BIM. The next part of using 3D software is visual. Revit just is not even close to rendering quality---YET! All they need to do is add 3d Studio Viz to their internal renderer and I think we have got a winner.
If I were you, I would go with Revit. In the long run, I think it is the software for everyone.

[FK]

If there was a downfall to Revit that I see so far that I have used extensively in other programs (Archicad) mainly has to do with 3D viewing. I have not found how to get an axo of just one floor plan-shaded it and place it on a sheet. I have not found a way to do a 3D cut away, shaded it, render it and place it on a sheet.
Turn on the section box or use the "orient to a view" button in the dynamic view dialog flyout. Release 7 adds true cut geometry in 3d views.

[dalewww]

FK
My novice status shows. I was wrong. That works great.
While we are here, what about a marque 3d view or just select the objects you want to see in 3D and then go look at it.

Thanks for setting me straight.

[beegee]

I cannot stand the very poor quality renderings it produces, almost the worst that I have seen in this price point of software. Archicad's internal renderer is leaps and bounds better than Revits.
Most experienced renderers will tell you that Revit Accurender is more than capable of producing excellent renderings, but its a matter of knowing how to get the best materials and textures and lighting in your renderings. Also, Accurender is very easy to learn and use in comparison with other rendering programmes. When you have time, there are a number of threads in the Rendering forum that discuss this in some depth.

Revit Accurender isn't a professional quality rendering program, nor is it intended to be. The Viz -Revit plug-in, about to be released will also fill a gap in the rendering arena.

[beegee]

FK
My novice status shows. I was wrong. That works great.
While we are here, what about a marque 3d view or just select the objects you want to see in 3D and then go look at it.

Thanks for setting me straight.
To view selected objects in 3D, either turn off the visibility of the other objects, or in a 3D View use the Hide Isolate tool, or use Worksets.

[jbalding48677]

While we are here, what about a marque 3d view or just select the objects you want to see in 3D and then go look at it.
You are not going to get a view like in ArchiCAD where you select some objects and jump to 3D and those are the only objects you see. Once again, use the section box to get something close.

BTW, thanks for your input in this thread, excellent.

[dalewww]

Thank you for filling me in on those things. I need this information to get back into the swing of things using the tools that Revit has to offer.

Yes, I am sure that with experience on Accurender I can get better. As always, choosing the right textures, materials, and lighting plays a HUGE part in a good rendering. From my lack of experience on Revit and Accurender I can only go by what I have seen online (RevitCity.com) and on demos that I have seen. Most of them have been rather chunky in comparison to those that I have seen using Archicad alone, not to mention putting the Archicad drawing into the most advertised renderer for Archicad, Artlantis. I must keep plugging away at the functions of Revit to find all this stuff. It is a shame that I cannot pick up a manual and get instructions of these things. Just have to play and keep adding posts to these forums to find the best way to do so.

Thanks, Jim, for clarifying the way to get to some of the views that I am looking for or should I say not having the view I am looking for, I will play with the ones I have heard thus far. Seems like they can work with a little getting used to them.

I wasn't sure if my inexperience with Revit was worth posting, but this thread was what I needed a few months ago when I was struggling with the fact that the office I am in wanted to go with Revit, so I thought I would post and see. Thanks for the positive feedback, Jim.

Till my next novice post....

[gjburkett]

Very good input, Dave. Thanks. Unfortunately for me, my office is the opposite of yours. Our main IT guy is totally against Autodesk, mainly because of the ADT days. It's going to be hard to convince him, but if I can really get good at it in the next couple weeks or so, then I can prove it's worth the investment. However, even if he's still not willing to go with it if I like it, my boss told me he would get me whatever I needed when he hired me, so I'll hold him to his word. lol I hope I catch on very quickly. Can someone point me in the direction of the infamous tutorials ya'll keep talking about. Thanks again.

[beegee]

The Tutorials are under Help > Tutorials.

You may also be interested in books on Revit. THIS THREAD (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=1164&highlight=cyril+book+revit) mentions some of the most popular.

Also, our very own Jim Balding recently co-authored a book with CL Fox - " Introducing and Implementing Autodesk Revit (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1401850499/002-7488866-3853602?v=glance&vi=reviews)" which is an excellent resource.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Our main IT guy is totally against Autodesk, mainly because of the ADT days. It's going to be hard to convince him,
Tell your IT guy that you won't tell him what server, backup and anti-virus software to use if he doesn't tell you what CAD software to use!
I figure as long as you don't walk into a PC based office and ask for a MAC, you should be able to get the right tools to do YOUR job the easiest way you can. Once the boss sees what you can do with Revit you shouldn't have much trouble with the IT guy ;) Good luck.

[gjburkett]

The Tutorials are under Help > Tutorials.

You may also be interested in books on Revit. THIS THREAD (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=1164&highlight=cyril+book+revit) mentions some of the most popular.

Also, our very own Jim Balding recently co-authored a book with CL Fox - " Introducing and Implementing Autodesk Revit (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1401850499/002-7488866-3853602?v=glance&vi=reviews)" which is an excellent resource.
lol, I thought everyone was talking about some kind of tutorials on here. I'll check out the tutorials in Revit. Thanks.

[gjburkett]

Tell your IT guy that you won't tell him what server, backup and anti-virus software to use if he doesn't tell you what CAD software to use!
I figure as long as you don't walk into a PC based office and ask for a MAC, you should be able to get the right tools to do YOUR job the easiest way you can. Once the boss sees what you can do with Revit you shouldn't have much trouble with the IT guy ;) Good luck.
What sucks is he's also our senior architect. Our boss won't tell him to change his ways so it doesn't hurt his feelings. It's halarious because he so anti-mainstream. He hates Microsoft, AutoCAD, Norton, etc. and goes with basically freeware programs to work around that. We're on freaking IntelliCAD for craps sake. It's AutoCAD with tons of bugs in it. It causes huge arguments here, but there's nothing we can really do. I'm the "new" guy as of last summer so I hope to "wow" everyone when I learn Revit and show them what it can do for our business.

Speaking of Mac, I hope Autodesk starts making it for both platforms. I can't stand Mac's personally, but my previous job used Macs (one of the reasons I left) and I found out that there are a lot of architecture firms that are on Macs. Right now, you either use ArchiCAD or Vectorworks (that's what we used) and I think AutoDesk could really take over there if they wanted to and is probably one of the main reasons that ArchiCAD and Revit are so close together in sales.

[dalewww]

What sucks is he's also our senior architect. Our boss won't tell him to change his ways so it doesn't hurt his feelings. It's halarious because he so anti-mainstream. I have a similar problem here. Our IT guy is a senior associate, and is very set in his ways of drawing. Using Autocad, we could not get everyone to agree on new ways of doing thing in the office because him and another senior associate created the "standards" (if you can call them that, I don't because no one uses them) for the office and changing them for the better would mean that their way was wrong.

Getting them to change to Archicad was bad enough. Sometimes I think that they squashed the whole thing with the principle architects in hope of going with an Autodesk product.

So I know what you are saying gjburkett. At least you and I are trying to have some forward movement technology-wise in our offices. I was the new guy 3 years ago and it has taken me that long to get the 3D package in the office.

Good luck.