Casework Manufactures - Revit Content

[techsupport.161645]

My office here in Michigan currently uses Stevens Industries as basis of design for casework. Currently they do not have any revit content, and I have yet to hear back from our rep. if they will be developing Revit content.

With that said our options are, to find a different manufacture that has Revit content available for all their casework products, or begin the task of taking the Steven catelog and begin developing revit content based on that.

If anyone knows of a casework manufacture that supports the Revit platform 100% and has developed their product catelog items in Revit I would be interested in looking into see what they have to offer.

Thank You

[cliff collins]

Have you checked:

1. Autodesk Seek

2. AWI- American Woodworking Institute

3. 4-Specs or other Specifications websites

4. Contacted a local sales rep

I would be very careful in suggesting that you build families for the Stevens casework--
this would require hours and hours of work, and unless the Owner is willing to pay extra for this, I'd avoid it. It is high time that Stevens gets on the BIM bandwagon, or they will lose business.

cheers......

[btrusty]

Architectural Woodwork Standards - Edition 1 - 2009 (book)
comes with a CDrom that has ~480 revit cabinet families

it also has dwg & dxf, we we arent caring about that for this discussion

[techsupport.161645]

Thanks for the response guys.

http://www.arcat.com has a few good BIM product content based off of Hamilton Sorter caseworks.

I do not think its a matter of finding the type of cabinet I need, there is plent of casework content out there, but it would be nice to have a library for my user to select from that when placed would schedule has is does in autoCAD now. Since our basis of design in CAD has been Stevens we have blocks for their current Catelog.

With Revit and the nice scheduling features, even if we use a cabinet we find on another manufactures site, we essentially would have to edit the parameters to match at least the model number of the Stevens catelog so it appears in our Schedule.

I totally agree that building families based of the Stevens casework is going to be extemely time consuming. However, being the basis of our design, it might save time down the road. Dedicating the time to create all the case work is another challange.

[techsupport.161645]

Architectural Woodwork Standards - Edition 1 - 2009 (book)
comes with a CDrom that has ~480 revit cabinet families

it also has dwg & dxf, we we arent caring about that for this discussion

Thank You. I just visited their site and they had about 200+ cabinets available for download. I will definately look at order the book.

Thanks again for the responses.

[johnf.77896]

You should also take a look at www.revit-content.com they have some great stuff.

John Fleming
GMK Architecture, inc.

[Kevin Janik]

John

Do you use their stuff and can the kitchen family really create a detail kitchen? Seems like magic looking in from the outside!

Kevin

[ws]

re. revit-content.com
FWIW I use their kitchen stuff (and most of their other families now as well).

A reply from revit-content.com to a comment I made to them today (about their excellent Velux family) said that a new kitchen version was going to be posted soon, if there was anything I wanted adding :)

v1 of their all-in-one door family is about to be posted as well - that should be interesting.

[brad.laackman]

Case Systems is a Michigan Manufacturer of Casework and Lab tables. We have REVIT and have been building the Catalog REVIT database over the last year or so. Many project we have been dealing with in the recent past have dealt with Architecture firms mandating REVIT for the more complementary construction packages. We would be willing to assist in any way needed and we enjoy assisting local business.
Thank you
Please contact me at the following;
Brad Laackman
General Manager
Case Systems Solutions
brad.laackman@casesystemssolutions.com
9894960824

[m.thomas]

re. revit-content.com
FWIW I use their kitchen stuff (and most of their other families now as well).

A reply from revit-content.com to a comment I made to them today (about their excellent Velux family) said that a new kitchen version was going to be posted soon, if there was anything I wanted adding :)

v1 of their all-in-one door family is about to be posted as well - that should be interesting.

William,

The kitchen family looks to be well worth the money.

A couple of quick questions if you don't mind:-
1- The doors have glass fronts. I guess it's pretty easy to amend their family to swap materials to create a solid infill panel ?
2- Is there an option to have plain solid cupboard doors i.e without the infill panel ? If so I can see this family being useful for simple education and health projects as well as residential.

Thanks.

[ws]

I think you can do what you describe.

There are so many parameters and option switches that it takes a bit of getting your head around.

The manual is available here:
http://www.revit-content.com/content/kitchen/Manual-Kitchen-2.pdf

Apparently v3 of the kitchen will have a double sink option and the ability to have drawers either above or below the doors.

[leok]

Stevens is working to develop a Revit Library of our models and will support the group as always. We have over 3000 models, including cabs, tops, millwork, and hardware...not including sizes, so it will take a little time. If you need more info just let me know. thanks.

Leo Kitten
Engr Mgr.
Stevens Ind.

[cliff collins]

Will the Stevens Revit families be available for download on your website,
or where would we access them? Could you post here to let the Forum know
when content will be available?

cheers

[leok]

They will be available on the website at least...we currently offer all our models and drawing platform for AutoCAD on CD Rom. We have one of our programmers working on this project and I will get a date nailed down by next week. Any feedback is appreciated of course.

thank you,
Leo

[cliff collins]

Well, you asked for it--and you came to the right place.

2D Autocad content is worthless for Revit users. It actually makes our Revit models
perform poorly, and there is no "information" in the autocad imported geometry.
Clients want more from our models--visualization, quantity take off, schedules, coordination
of content with the adjacent materials, lighting, walls, ceilings,floors, etc.
Even 3D multi-view blocks are not worth putting in a Revit model.

This is why creating Revit content is critical to us, and to manufacturers who want their products included in our projects.

Make sure the families are built correctly and "flex" properly--as a lot of mfg. revit content is of very poor quality. Make sure the family is created in a template of the correct category, and has parameters set up. Include Identity data for Keynotes and Assembly Codes. DO NOT simply place a 3D Autocad block into a Revit family, and then claim it is Revit content! We will throw it into the recycle bin and get it from someone else, which most likely means specifying someone else's product.

We use E-Specs for Revit, which actually writes the specification sections from the Revit meta-data included in the families contained in our models.

We are glad to see that Stevens is investing in Revit and BIM.
We would consider specifying your product, as soon as it is truly BIM content
for Revit. For a good example, take a look at Andersen Windows or Pella, or the AWI set of casework Revit families.

cheers

[leok]

If it's worth doing it's worth doing right. We'll have 1 catalog up at a time. Base units will be first. Thank you for the comments.

[techsupport.161645]

Well, you asked for it--and you came to the right place.

2D Autocad content is worthless for Revit users. It actually makes our Revit models
perform poorly, and there is no "information" in the autocad imported geometry.
Clients want more from our models--visualization, quantity take off, schedules, coordination
of content with the adjacent materials, lighting, walls, ceilings,floors, etc.
Even 3D multi-view blocks are not worth putting in a Revit model.

This is why creating Revit content is critical to us, and to manufacturers who want their products included in our projects.

Make sure the families are built correctly and "flex" properly--as a lot of mfg. revit content is of very poor quality. Make sure the family is created in a template of the correct category, and has parameters set up. Include Identity data for Keynotes and Assembly Codes. DO NOT simply place a 3D Autocad block into a Revit family, and then claim it is Revit content! We will throw it into the recycle bin and get it from someone else, which most likely means specifying someone else's product.

We use E-Specs for Revit, which actually writes the specification sections from the Revit meta-data included in the families contained in our models.

We are glad to see that Stevens is investing in Revit and BIM.
We would consider specifying your product, as soon as it is truly BIM content
for Revit. For a good example, take a look at Andersen Windows or Pella, or the AWI set of casework Revit families.

cheers


Cliff,

I could not agree more with what you have commented on.

Leo,

Steven's has been the basis of design for my office for many years, AutoCAD however. We definately want to continue to utlize your products as basis of design in the Revit platform. In discusion with other casework manufactures, they to are in the process of converting over to the Revit patform and developing their products into parametric families. They are even willing to accept requests from customers looking for a piece of casework from their catelog and within a few days have that particular piece of casework developed into a Revit family.

Is this something Steven's is willing to do as well?

Thank You

[leok]

Yes, but it is harvest time here with schools wanting all their equipment built right this minute. We need to get the popular cabinets models in Revit and thru May in the engineering department. Then we will be able to take care of any request within 48 hours since the building blocks will be complete...as long as it is within reason and not 200 cabinets due in 2 days. We do have a lot of resources we pull from from and I'll setup a request on the website for this as well. Thank you for the great idea.

Leo

[jsteinhauer]

Yes, but it is harvest time here with schools wanting all their equipment built right this minute. We need to get the popular cabinets models in Revit and thru May in the engineering department. Then we will be able to take care of any request within 48 hours since the building blocks will be complete...as long as it is within reason and not 200 cabinets due in 2 days. We do have a lot of resources we pull from from and I'll setup a request on the website for this as well. Thank you for the great idea.

Leo

Leo,

I would strongly suggest you use Type Catalogs for your content. If a style of cabinet can come in various sizes, do not make them all separate families. Fisher Hamilton did this and I expressed to them, this was not helpful. They thought they could cheat by loading 3d cad into a family. There is no BIM in that, and I strongly encourage you not to do this. It sounds like you're heading down the right path. Also, check the families in a project environment as well. This it to make sure they look and act the way you want them too. With some of the casework families I had to generate, I have both flush overlay & inset in the same family.

Best of luck to you in your Revit endeavors,
Jeff S.

[leok]

they will be parametric. I realize we can't short cut it. thanks for the help.

[Scott D Davis]

Autodesk has developed the Revit® Model Content Style Guide (http://revit.autodesk.com/Library/RMCSG/Revit_Model_Content_Style_Guide_v2_1.zip) to help you develop consistent, useful Revit models that design professionals can use with confidence.

Find this style guide at the link above or at http://seek.autodesk.com/manufacturer.htm

Then I suggest you get your content hosted on the SEEK search engine, also at the website above.

[techsupport.161645]

Leo,

I would strongly suggest you use Type Catalogs for your content..

A nice example of the use Type Catelogs for casework is from Hamilton Sorter.

http://www.hamiltonsorter.com/bim_cad.asp

Just to give you an idea how they have utilized it. The have a downloadable .zip file containing their products. HamiltonSorterRevitCatalogrev6-02-09.zip

[leok]

As an update I will post a link to our first designs next week, after they are better, for review and critique. I have talked to several architects in the past couple weeks and will try to make sure all these ideas are included. I know they have helped. We are trying to keep the Revit designs very simple, visually pleasing, and work efficiently for the group. Our current timeline is to release in phases with the 1st group of top 100 models to be out June 1. We are discussing getting the entire list of 3000 plus models out this year after we have a nice system. We now offer nearly any option...hundreds of options...on our cabinet models, but I feel if we put all these into the Revit design they will get overly complex, buggy, and probably never used by the group. All the options can be added in a spec and most will be shown on the web catalog. Thanks again for all your help.

Leo Kitten
Engr. Mgr.
Stevens Ind.

[gaby424]

Autodesk has developed the Revit® Model Content Style Guide (http://revit.autodesk.com/Library/RMCSG/Revit_Model_Content_Style_Guide_v2_1.zip) to help you develop consistent, useful Revit models that design professionals can use with confidence.

Find this style guide at the link above or at http://seek.autodesk.com/manufacturer.htm

Then I suggest you get your content hosted on the SEEK search engine, also at the website above.

I need a clarificaion if possible: in this guide they insist to not using spaces in family names only "_" (underscore). Why? Is a server hosting related file naming limitation or another thing?

[dblaha]

Leo,

I would strongly suggest you use Type Catalogs for your content. If a style of cabinet can come in various sizes, do not make them all separate families. Fisher Hamilton did this and I expressed to them, this was not helpful. They thought they could cheat by loading 3d cad into a family. There is no BIM in that, and I strongly encourage you not to do this.



As someone directly involved with the Hamilton Revit project, there are a few points in your comments to which I take exception. Although Fisher Hamilton initially provided thousands of small singular families of our products that were generated from 3D AutoCAD content, we did not do this as a "cheat". Carefully engineered parametric families take time. As we stated very clearly on our distribution site, those thousands of singular families were provided very quickly as a temporary solution for the many who were requesting accurate content as quickly as possible, with the promise that parametric versions would follow. Although you personally may have been unable to make use of them, the overall feedback we received indicated that most appreciated the availability of that content despite its lack of parametric function. Of course, that was quite a while ago. As it is, we have been releasing fully parametric content since the end of 2009.

The families we now offer are not only parametric, but also detailed and compact. They make more efficient use of the parametric capabilities of Revit than any other casework and lab content I have encountered. Although most content providers limit themselves to parametrically changing the dimensions of a family, we've decided to use Revit's parametric engine to the fullest. Through various nesting and logic techniques, we're producing families that generate up to hundreds of types. (Of course, this makes type catalogs essential.) As an example, we have one family that generates almost every standing-height base unit in our Wood line--over 500 types. Among other things, it gives the user the option of choosing flush or radiused door and drawer fronts. Yet the family is still only 760KB.

All of those original singular families have been replaced with our newer parametric ones, with the exception of two product lines that are still in progress. Currently, we have 91 parametric Revit families that generate 10,748 types. I encourage anyone looking for detailed, compact and parametric casework and laboratory content for their project to visit our Standard Product Library site and take a look. All of the content is provided free of charge:

http://www.hamiltonlab.com/fisherhamilton/information+center/standard+product+library+autocad+and+revit.asp

David Blaha
Associate CAD/PDM Administrator
Thermo Scientific Hamilton
Laboratory Furniture and Fume Hoods

[tcupp]

http://www.woodworkinstitute.com/publications/casework.asp

[aggockel50321]

I
encourage anyone looking for detailed, compact and parametric casework and laboratory content for their project to visit our Standard Product Library site and take a look. All of the content is provided free of charge:


Just used your families on a small lab renovation here. Very impressive.