SIP construction / true views to roof planes

[nicholas_baum]

Many of our residential designs are based on SIP (Structural Insulated Panel) construction. We also create our own cut drawings for the factory to use and produce walls and roofs for delivery to construction site (see attached). I am new to Revit and am investigating the possibility to use it for this purpose.

Revit does not seem to address this type of construction. My guess on the best way to create drawings for this situation is to use a copy of the elevations and draw detail lines over walls and window ROs then set the view properties to not display model. This works for the walls but not for the roof panels. I can not figure out how to get a true view of a roof panel so that it can be dimensioned for the factory. Sections give us views that are perpendicular to vertical elements and levels give us plan views -- is there a way to create views perpendicular to roof planes?

Also, any advise concerning SIP construction with Revit is appreciated.


Thanks,
Nick
---------
Chaleff & Rogers, Architects
Water Mill, NY 11976

for more info on SIPs see: http://www.sips.org/

[Steve_Stafford]

...I can not figure out how to get a true view of a roof panel so that it can be dimensioned for the factory. Sections give us views that are perpendicular to vertical elements and levels give us plan views -- is there a way to create views perpendicular to roof planes?...Open the default 3D view, then choose VIEW>ORIENT BY PLANE then choose the PICK PLANE option. Pick a roof face and the view will be changed to the orientation of the roof face you pick.

Now choose VIEW>DYNAMICALLY MODIFY VIEW then click the little save icon on the dialog box that loads in the bottom left corner of your screen to save the view and name it accordingly.

[nicholas_baum]

Steve,

Thanks, I tried your suggestion and it looks good except the view I got was from underneath the building instead of from above the roof. Is there a way to invert or switch view side of the plane?

Nick

[Steve_Stafford]

...tried your suggestion and it looks good except the view I got was from underneath the building...That isn't what happens for me, are you certain you are picking the face of the roof you want in plan, not a fascia or another side? I couldn't duplicate what you describe.

[nicholas_baum]

OK ....after working a little more on model..... now I see the roof plane from above as I had wanted. I don't know how that happened.

Thank you for your help,
Nick

Anyone using Revit with SIP designs?

[nicholas_baum]

Steve,

Sorry, I believe I didn't follow your instruction exactly. I previously created a ref plane at roofs top surface then when using Orient by view specified plane by a Named plane. I will use "Pick a plane" option next time.

Thanks again,
Nick

[nicholas_baum]

Now that I have a new 3D view that is a true view to the roof plane this view does not allow me to add drafting lines over it and then hide model.
Is there another trick that I do not know about?

Nick

[Steve_Stafford]

Well...how about this? Create a new linetype called 2D-SIP (whatever you want) Then use model lines to draft your joints and such. The lines will be visible in other views but you can turn off the new linetype in those views when you don't want to see them.

(edit: Just remember to set your workplane to the face of the roof first too)

[tatlin]

Many of our residential designs are based on SIP (Structural Insulated Panel) construction. We also create our own cut drawings for the factory to use and produce walls and roofs for delivery to construction site (see attached). I am new to Revit and am investigating the possibility to use it for this purpose.

Revit does not seem to address this type of construction. My guess on the best way to create drawings for this situation is to use a copy of the elevations and draw detail lines over walls and window ROs then set the view properties to not display model. This works for the walls but not for the roof panels. I can not figure out how to get a true view of a roof panel so that it can be dimensioned for the factory. Sections give us views that are perpendicular to vertical elements and levels give us plan views -- is there a way to create views perpendicular to roof planes?

Also, any advise concerning SIP construction with Revit is appreciated.


Thanks,
Nick
---------
Chaleff & Rogers, Architects
Water Mill, NY 11976

for more info on SIPs see: http://www.sips.org/

Nick,

There is a better way to do SIPs in Revit 7 0 - Take a look at the new Wall Panels in Curtain Walls. Using this new tool, you can make the overall wall and then, using curtain grids, sub-divide into smaller walls to represent your SIPs. The wall panels will be the correct size and be 'driven' by 'master' wall. You can also schedule the panels and tag them. You could do something similar with Roofs.

With regard to orientation of views, try using Detail Sections - they do not have the vertical restriction that Building and Wall Sections have, so you can orient them to be parallel to the roof face.


I have not actually built SIPs using revit, but there are some other people at autodesk that have, let me see if I can get them to post here.

[Roger Evans]

In turn can I pick your brains & experience
I am considering Sips for a residential job in the UK can you give any advice feedback as per max size of panels you would use? Joint techniques & what kind of problems to look out for etc ~ Just about everything really
eg overall depth of panel you use & insulation targets
I'll be meeting Sips Co in New Year & while they will be able to answer q's I would prefer to have unbiased opinions

Be grateful for any feedback

Cheers

Roger

[nicholas_baum]

Well...how about this? Create a new linetype called 2D-SIP (whatever you want) Then use model lines to draft your joints and such. The lines will be visible in other views but you can turn off the new linetype in those views when you don't want to see them.

(edit: Just remember to set your workplane to the face of the roof first too)

Steve,

Yes, you are right, that seems like a good way to go. I will try it out.

Regards,
Nick

[Steve_Stafford]

Be sure to check out what Tatlin is describing, it may eliminate much of the linework effort?

[nicholas_baum]

Nick,

There is a better way to do SIPs in Revit 7 0 - Take a look at the new Wall Panels in Curtain Walls. Using this new tool, you can make the overall wall and then, using curtain grids, sub-divide into smaller walls to represent your SIPs. The wall panels will be the correct size and be 'driven' by 'master' wall. You can also schedule the panels and tag them. You could do something similar with Roofs.

With regard to orientation of views, try using Detail Sections - they do not have the vertical restriction that Building and Wall Sections have, so you can orient them to be parallel to the roof face.


I have not actually built SIPs using revit, but there are some other people at autodesk that have, let me see if I can get them to post here.

Matt,

Thanks for the advise. Detail section views are great. I never noticed they were there.

My first look at the curtain systems option it looks good too. I need to investigate further when time permits.

Regards,
Nick

[nicholas_baum]

Roger,

I recommend visiting http://www.sipweb.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=1&Forum_Title=SIP+Talk and www.sips.org if you haven't already done so. Although I am no expert I would say my boss, Bill Chaleff, is very experienced in the field. He writes articles for the sipweb website which you can learn much from.

In general we try to spec the largest panel possible (8' x 24') and have the contractor supply a crane to assemble. We frequently use 6 1/2" EPS panels for walls and 10 1/4" for roofs. But each project is different and may have certain structural requirements. Where there is not a structural requirement we typically spec the plywood splines. The panel joints are to be sealed with foam and sometime caulk. This creates a very tight house. Therefore I believe all panel manufactures are requiring the house to have an ERV or HRV (energy or heat recovery ventilator).

Like I said before every project different ....but I hope this helps.

Nick

[PaulB]

Matt,

Would you say that this method would be good for Tilt-Up Concrete Panel wall construction too ?


Maybe we should move to Tips & Tricks

Regards,


Paul

[christopher.zoog51272]

Matt,

Would you say that this method would be good for Tilt-Up Concrete Panel wall construction too ?


Maybe we should move to Tips & Tricks

Regards,


Paul
I would say YES. This would have been a lifesaver for a warehouse project we did a few years ago.

[Gerald]

For an introduction into SIPS visit www.sips.org, this site contains useful information about the industry and a comprehensive who's who.

As Matt mentioned with the new features in 7.0 curtain walls are well suited for the SIPS task. In fact I used just such a technique for a recent SIP project in Northern California.

Cheers,
Jerry
Application Engineer, Autodesk

[Steve_Stafford]

Umm, Jerry...sounds like a great opportunity to put a little tutorial together...;-)

[nicholas_baum]

For an introduction into SIPS visit www.sips.org, this site contains useful information about the industry and a comprehensive who's who.

As Matt mentioned with the new features in 7.0 curtain walls are well suited for the SIPS task. In fact I used just such a technique for a recent SIP project in Northern California.

Cheers,
Jerry
Application Engineer, Autodesk

Jerry,

At first blush it seems to work well for walls. Have you worked with curtain systems for SIP roofs as well? Could you post some examples?

Regards,
Nick

[Roger Evans]

That was a brilliant & informative link you gave there >> I also like Bill Chaleff's style

Answering loads of my questions already

Thanks

Roger