Two doors, one door?

[LP Design]

Hello all,
First a general thank you. I've been lurking/searching these forums for a while and finding quite a lot of very useful info on setting up BIM standards. Unfortunately I can't find anything that answers this question.

Is it possible to create a door family with two door panels that tag as separate doors?
:? Yea. I know that made no sense... Please take a look at the attached image. It is a metal frame with transom and a side lite between two door panels.

Our current office standard (CAD) would be to tag each leaf with a unique door number. Then in the schedule each door would reference the same frame type. In Revit I can create this object as a door family with both door panels no problem, but then Revit will tag it as a single object.

I thought about just doing it that way and waiting to see what happens, but I foresee problems with hardware specification/submittal/installation. (Typically a pair of double doors only have one "active" leaf with locking hardware on it)

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Has anyone already run into a similar problem and (I hope) solved it?

Thanks in advance!
-LP

[twiceroadsfool]

Hello all,
First a general thank you. I've been lurking/searching these forums for a while and finding quite a lot of very useful info on setting up BIM standards. Unfortunately I can't find anything that answers this question.

Is it possible to create a door family with two door panels that tag as separate doors?
:? Yea. I know that made no sense... Please take a look at the attached image. It is a metal frame with transom and a side lite between two door panels.

Our current office standard (CAD) would be to tag each leaf with a unique door number. Then in the schedule each door would reference the same frame type. In Revit I can create this object as a door family with both door panels no problem, but then Revit will tag it as a single object.

I thought about just doing it that way and waiting to see what happens, but I foresee problems with hardware specification/submittal/installation. (Typically a pair of double doors only have one "active" leaf with locking hardware on it)

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Has anyone already run into a similar problem and (I hope) solved it?

Thanks in advance!
-LP

Look up the Curtain Wall tool, and Curtain Wall Panel Doors. Thats the easy way.

Then if you really want to go nuts, look up "Nested Panels and Frames."

[Paul Monsef]

Sure. Create the panels as a shared nested door family.

[LP Design]

Thanks for the replies!

I have looked into using curtainwall but that opens up another can of worms. Now I'll need multi-category filtered schedules to do a door schedule, I have door types where some have frames some don't, some are "door" objects, some are "panel" objects. Then the curtainwall object as the door frame doesn't update if I make a global change to that frame type (as a door family would). :?

So it sounds like using nested panels is a better solution. Next problem:

I made the frame as a door family, no panels or symbolic lines or anything. Then I made a door panel by itself by starting with a generic model and changing it's type to "door". That all seems to work fine, but when I try to TAG the door it only recognizes the parent door (frame) family. I cannot get it to tag the nested door components. :(

Where am I going wrong?
-LP

[twiceroadsfool]

Thanks for the replies!

I have looked into using curtainwall but that opens up another can of worms. Now I'll need multi-category filtered schedules to do a door schedule, I have door types where some have frames some don't, some are "door" objects, some are "panel" objects. Then the curtainwall object as the door frame doesn't update if I make a global change to that frame type (as a door family would). :?

So it sounds like using nested panels is a better solution. Next problem:

I made the frame as a door family, no panels or symbolic lines or anything. Then I made a door panel by itself by starting with a generic model and changing it's type to "door". That all seems to work fine, but when I try to TAG the door it only recognizes the parent door (frame) family. I cannot get it to tag the nested door components. :(

Where am I going wrong?
-LP

Make the panel family shared under Family Catagories and Parameters.

[cliff collins]

You need to "share" the panel family--open it and go to categories and parameters,
and check the "shared" box.

Then reload that into the frame family, save, and load the nested family into your project.

that should do it.

cheers

[Paul Monsef]

That all seems to work fine, but when I try to TAG the door it only recognizes the parent door (frame) family. I cannot get it to tag the nested door components. :(

Where am I going wrong?
-LP

Make sure the panel family is set to be a shared family. It's an option under "Categories and Parameters".

[LP Design]

That was great! 3 replies in 5 minutes, all correct. :D You guys rock.

-LP

[Paul Monsef]

That was great! 3 replies in 5 minutes, all correct. :D You guys rock.

-LP
I had to take a phone call or I would've been first. :cool:

Actually, I was first... :razz:

Sure. Create the panels as a SHARED nested door family.

[cliff collins]

Man, I'm losing it!

These AUGI guys are FAST!!!!!!!!!

cheers

[Scott Womack]

I have looked into using curtainwall but that opens up another can of worms. Now I'll need multi-category filtered schedules to do a door schedule, I have door types where some have frames some don't, some are "door" objects, some are "panel" objects. Then the curtainwall object as the door frame doesn't update if I make a global change to that frame type.

This is not true! If the door leaf is made with the door panel template, it would schedule along with all other doors. I just does not tag automatically. Also, if you make one frame set up as a curtainwall, you could then group it, and get the automated changes.

That said, the nested approach is the way to go. I'd make the frame with one door leaf, then make a special door panel, shared, that gets nested into the frame. You'll have to tab in to tag the nested door.

[LP Design]

I got the nested doors to work. Example attached. I think I will definitely be going this route. Thanks again :)

Scott, now you've gone and got my curiosity piqued.
In order for a door to show up in a curtain-wall it needs to be a "panel" element, which (as I understand it) Revit classifies as a completely different type of object than a "door". You said "If the door leaf is made with the door panel template..."
Do you mean that I would need to nest a "door" family consisting of just the panel into a "curtain wall panel" family?

-LP

[Scott Womack]

No, when you start a door or window to be inserted in a curtainwall as a panel, there are special templates that these have to be started from inorder for say a door schedule to see these panels as doors, or a window schedule to see them as windows.

[LP Design]

*sigh*... I figured out the problem right before i read your reply. The problem was a curtain-wall door panel family which was improperly set to a "panel" category instead of "door" category, so none of my tags schedules etc. were working while I was testing things. :roll:

Even so, I still find issues with grouped curtain-walls. I've gotten unpredictable errors similar to those in this post: http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=49917&highlight=contain+identical+members. and even some unpredictable mullion behavior (spacing, alignment, etc.), although that's probably just me needing to get more familiar with curtain-wall objects.

-LP

[Scott Womack]

Typically, I set the ends of the curtainwall to not clean-up, before grouping them. This seems to help. Also, when copying curtainwalls (storefront) from floor to floor, I copy it using the gray copy to clipboard, then paste aligned to levels.