[2011] Turn Calculations off (OPEN)

[heyeric201220561]

I wish to turn off "systems" in REVIT MEP. I don't find it useful. And based on my research if you don't input your equipment/diffusers, it (systems) significantly slows down your computer.

Why doesn't REVIT recognize that the connected systems are "connected systems," it seems redundant to define your system(s) again. It's a useless feature! REVIT Architecture doesn't have "systems" and their drawings are fluid , they (REVIT Arch. users) don't have all the refreshing/loading delays that plague REVIT MEP.

Another useless feature "Auto-route." Complete waste of time.

REVIT needs real world project in their tutorials. The current 2010 tutorial is the most non-real world example I have ever seen used in a tutorial.

Lets give an option to disable useless features, Autodesk - we don't need the "CADILLAC" of all drafting softwares.

[mjdanowski]

A couple things:

- Revit isn't a drafting software, its a modeling and analysis software that can draft. If your only intention is to draft, AutoCAD MEP is probably a better solution for you.

- Revit Architecture has a good amount of versions (what is it, 9, 10?) ahead of MEP. When they were on release 6, I can assure you they had similar problems as MEP is currently having now.

[rk31]

- Revit isn't a drafting software, its a modeling and analysis software that can draft. If your only intention is to draft, AutoCAD MEP is probably a better solution for you.

True, but then again, we engineers might be "forced" to use Revit because of the architect/owner. Not that I believe the calculations functionality is completely useless, but if turning it off will improve performance, I would like to see that happen.

[truevis]

I have wished for such a feature for a long time.

I wish for a no-calc/no-auto-constrain parameter on every Revit element. How many times have we made a line in a sketch that we just want to keep it where we put it but have to do all kinds of tricks to keep it there?

[Tony C.]

I wish to turn off "systems" in REVIT MEP. I don't find it useful. And based on my research if you don't input your equipment/diffusers, it (systems) significantly slows down your computer.

Why doesn't REVIT recognize that the connected systems are "connected systems," it seems redundant to define your system(s) again. It's a useless feature! REVIT Architecture doesn't have "systems" and their drawings are fluid , they (REVIT Arch. users) don't have all the refreshing/loading delays that plague REVIT MEP.

Another useless feature "Auto-route." Complete waste of time.

REVIT needs real world project in their tutorials. The current 2010 tutorial is the most non-real world example I have ever seen used in a tutorial.

Lets give an option to disable useless features, Autodesk - we don't need the "CADILLAC" of all drafting softwares.


While I find the Systems within Revit MEP to be useful and extremely powerful, I too wish that we could turn OFF the calculations at times.

I wholeheartedly support the use of systems. They are the primary capability that makes Revit MEP an engineering tool, rather than simply an expensive drafting tool. However, the calculations that are associated with the systems do not, IMHO, need to run constantly because they slow down the software. I would prefer to press a button to ‘calculate now’ once I finish layout out a section or a system. Or maybe only run the Systems calculations once it has been idle for 15 seconds or so.
Perhaps Autodesk could add options for calculation as:
- Calculate in Real-Time (currently)
- Calculate manually (only when user activates tool)
- Calculate automatically (when user is idle for x seconds)

[jason.martin]

What percentage faster would you expect Revit to be if calculations were indeed turned off?

[truevis]

If anyone argues against this wish, saying that Revit is supposed to calculate things and be intelligent, remember exiting conditions.

Who would ever want to calculate existing things? I don't care if they are walls or ducts.

[heyeric201220561]

A couple things:

- Revit isn't a drafting software, its a modeling and analysis software that can draft. If your only intention is to draft, AutoCAD MEP is probably a better solution for you.

- Revit Architecture has a good amount of versions (what is it, 9, 10?) ahead of MEP. When they were on release 6, I can assure you they had similar problems as MEP is currently having now.

- REIVT MEP is not a "modeling software." All the firms that I know that use REVIT MEP use it as a drafting only software. Design companies that use REVIT MEP as "modeling software" are wasting their time and money, and companies will go out of business if they use REVIT MEP as "modeling software." So, please keep your "modeling software" and send me "drafting software." Since my company runs on actual revenue generated from the product we put out (we put out drawings which have to be drafted, in order for us to make money), we need not waste our time trying to figure out useless features - such as autor

- I don't care about REVIT Architecture. I'm not an architect. I'm an engineer and I need to draw ducts, pipes, and electrical stuff. I am not assured when you say "I can assure you."

I'm not being cynical intentionally, it's just that REVIT MEP is incomplete software and is being pitched differently. Autodesk really needs to sit down with engineers and get an idea as to what engineers use on a day-to-day basis.

[mjdanowski]

REIVT MEP is not a "modeling software." All the firms that I know that use REVIT MEP use it as a drafting only software. Design companies that use REVIT MEP as "modeling software" are wasting their time and money, and companies will go out of business if they use REVIT MEP as "modeling software." So, please keep your "modeling software" and send me "drafting software." Since my company runs on actual revenue generated from the product we put out (we put out drawings which have to be drafted, in order for us to make money), we need not waste our time trying to figure out useless features - such as autor

As previously stated:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=3290681
That program is entirely meant for drafting in an MEP environment if that's all you want to do.

RMEP may not be the greatest modeling tool for, but it is still a modeling tool nonetheless. You are right though that drafting is not to be ignored, I have been saying that for ages. This industry produces drawings. However, drafting is not and should not be the only reason for using Revit.




I'm not being cynical intentionally, it's just that REVIT MEP is incomplete software and is being pitched differently. Autodesk really needs to sit down with engineers and get an idea as to what engineers use on a day-to-day basis.
You are right, they do. However they should not be reinventing the wheel with a new drafting software, they already have many of those. They should be talking to engineers like you say and learning how we would like to effectively model our buildings and systems. I believe with the new 2011 release they have begun to do that. The electrical features of RMEP used to be a joke. Now it is now a very valuable tool for design, coordination and analysis of electrical systems. One which I am itching to use more.

The problem with the earlier releases of Revit MEP was that they were not in line with how engineers think and would model a building. The auto-route feature for duct work is a perfect example of this. The awkward mechanical systems are a perfect example of this.

[Jrobker]

About once every six months a gentleman from Autodesk pays a visit to our company.
He is the Building Solutions Technical specialist - MEP.

He is extremely friendly and helpful. He sits down next to me and listens to our concerns, dislikes and likes about Revit. He takes notes, finds solutions and is very in tune with this industries needs.

there have been instances where it can take 30 seconds to move an air terminal, nudge a duct or add any other element to a system. It is very inefficient to sit and wait for software to catch up.

I told him once that having the ability to manually turn on/off calculations would be a huge time saver.

He cringed, closed one eye and cocked his head. He said, "I don't see that happening."
He told me that the manpower on the development team needed for such a task would be quite the undertaking. He said that for an overhaul as such to the software would set them back.

I got the impression that this software is built around this feature and if they were to apply this option of calculations, it would be like starting over.

I too one day, would like to see this option materialize.

[truevis]

...I told him once that having the ability to manually turn on/off calculations would be a huge time saver.

He cringed, closed one eye and cocked his head. He said, "I don't see that happening."...
I have gotten the same impress impression when talking with Autodesk people. But who knows? The idea could catch on. Again, I'd like it for everything, not just MEP elements.

Try making an extrusion's sketch that has many lines in it. Revit will chug on it, seeming to have to figure out automatic constraints on every line.

[mjdanowski]

I have gotten the same impress impression when talking with Autodesk people. But who knows? The idea could catch on. Again, I'd like it for everything, not just MEP elements.

Try making an extrusion's sketch that has many lines in it. Revit will chug on it, seeming to have to figure out automatic constraints on every line.

Personally, I think we are more likely to see a streamlining of the existing analysis algorithms and calculations that an option to remove them. Multiple cores, etc.

[Tony C.]

What The..?!
I think our wish has been granted!
(at least a significant part of it.)

In Revit MEP 2011, at the bottom of the Electrical Settings dialog box, is a category for “Load Calculations”. This tab contains settings for [electrical] Load Classifications, [electrical] Demand Factors, …..and a toggle to enable/disable CALCULATIONS FOR LOADS IN SPACES!

I can’t believe that Autodesk granted this wish*, and yet didn’t tout it as a new feature.

I assume this is hidden in the Electrical settings, because they want mechanical designers to leave this disabled. Electrical-only MEP files would not need the HVAC load calcs.

This new setting was posted a week ago on this A-desk blog: http://inside-the-system.typepad.com/my_weblog/2010/05/a-new-setting-to-increase-performance.html
(The screenshot attached was copied from the blog)

According to the blog post:
“Included in the new Load Calculations panel of the dialog is a control that allows you to turn off load calculations for spaces. Unchecking the “Run calculations for loads in spaces” checkbox will keep Revit from constantly updating these calculations and show the loads as “Not Computed” in the Properties dialog. As soon as the box is rechecked, the values will be calculated again.”


I have not yet tested this myself. I wanted to share it with y’all first. Please post back here what you find out when you change the setting.


Happy Reviting!


* OK, they didn’t grant every little thing that was discussed in this thread, but Mech. Load Calcs can be a significant performance drain and this seems like a big deal (to me anyway)!

[mjdanowski]

That's just for things like calculating the total electrical load in a space, not anything else.

[Tony C.]

That's just for things like calculating the total electrical load in a space, not anything else.

‘DOH!!

Once again I have opened my mouth only to insert my foot. I guess it was just wishful thinking on my part to assume that this would affect the mechanical calcs for the space, since I’m approaching it from a mechanical perspective. ..i mean, who would worry about electrical calculations? Electrical design is easy. ;-p
(Kidding!)


OK, so this still remains a wish.
sigh.

[mgsell]

I wrote a program that turns off calculations while modeling. It also allows you to turn them on again after you are done. I am in the process of selling it to an autodesk reseller. I will post the website once it is available.