What is the point of openings having phasing?

[patricks]

Why do openings have phase parameters if the surrounding material doesn't get filled in when you set the opening to be demolished on the current phase?

I have a shaft opening in an existing building that needs to get filled in for new construction. Sure would have been easy to just demolish the opening but noooooo. I still have to manually create a separate floor object to fill it in. So what's the point of being able to demolish the opening?

*edit* if it's a shaft opening, I do have to demolish it in order for my new floor to show up. But I still don't see why I should have to create a separate floor object if the opening is demolished.

[cvandevere]

Using Revit 2011 I just created a shaft opening in the floor, set it to exisiting phase, demolished it in the new and the floor filled in it self.

[rkitect]

Yeah, I believe the phasing functionality of openings in floors is broken. You can demolish a shaft just fine and it fills in, but you can not demolish or even set the phase of a an opening by face. If the floor is in the existing phase and you place an opening by face in that floo in a New Construction view, the opening will still be set in the existing phase (I'm guessing to match the phase of the face you selected).

On the converse side, if you place a New Construction shaft in an existing floor it will still be shown as cutting the floor in the existing view.

BØrked

[patricks]

Using Revit 2011 I just created a shaft opening in the floor, set it to exisiting phase, demolished it in the new and the floor filled in it self.

Well I don't know. This is a file started from scratch in 2011.

Floor is in existing phase. Shaft opening is in existing phase. If I set the shaft opening to demolished in the New phase, I still see the opening in the floor in my New Construction plan.

Same results from a completely fresh, blank file with no template in 2011.

You must be doing something differently to have your floor fill in automatically. I'll bet your floor is set as created on the new phase, so of course it fills in when you demolish an existing shaft, because then the shaft is no longer there on the new phase to cut the floor.

[cvandevere]

Patricks, you're right I double checked the floor had been set to new construction when I changed it to existing and demolished the shaft opening, the hole in the floor remained in the new construction phase.

[Darken_Rahl]

rk is right, this is broken and has been broken since 2009. It also affects floor openings created later in the phasing of the project which then show up in all previous phases.

[trombe]

Patricks, you're right I double checked the floor had been set to new construction when I changed it to existing and demolished the shaft opening, the hole in the floor remained in the new construction phase.

Your commercial work expectations outweigh my own, however in this particular case, the old adage or at least claim, by AutoDesk and thousands of others, maintain that Revit, should be used / is like real building, build it in Revit, like you would in the real world.

In this case, when you demolish a shaft, you are left with a jolly big hole.
To fill in the hole, you would a) place a temporary structure around the area for safety and then block off the hole until b) the new construction phase was started (broadly speaking) and then the new work would take place.

Surely Revit is just doing what would actually happen during the normal construction process ? This is how I would expect things to happen on site.

Perhaps it might be helpful if the tool had a switch to activate the infill or not as User chooses ?, but then this might be tricky for schedules, quantities and programming ? in the sense that you would always have to check for that.....
trombe

[patricks]

Yes you are right about the phases, but I would expect it to be automatic, like when demolishing wall inserts like windows or doors. And what is a shaft opening anyway? It's nothing tangible. It's just some invisible geometry that "cuts" the floor. When you demolish the opening, you're not really demolishing any real objects. Rather, when demolished it should "un-cut" the floor, and a piece of floor in the new phase should be put in place.

If I were to REALLY model it how it's built, I wouldn't even have shaft cuts to demolish. I would just sketch the hole as part of the floor sketch, and then create a piece of new floor to fill in the hole. But since the shaft cut tool is there, and it cuts the floor, and it has phasing, then demolishing the shaft cut should fill in the floor. Oh well.

Along the same lines, a new shaft cut on an existing floor should show a piece of demolished floor in an existing demo plan. But it doesn't do that either.

Really, the only thing shaft cuts are good for when doing any renovation work is to get all your multi-floor openings aligned so you can put in the separate floor objects in the right place yourself.

[truevis]

...Really, the only thing shaft cuts are good for when doing any renovation work is to get all your multi-floor openings aligned so you can put in the separate floor objects in the right place yourself.
Remember that one can copy/paste-aligned sketch lines. Hence, a opening lines in a sketch can be made identical on different Floor sketches.

[patricks]

Remember that one can copy/paste-aligned sketch lines. Hence, a opening lines in a sketch can be made identical on different Floor sketches.

True, but that takes much longer than placing a single shaft opening cut that cuts all your floors and automatically lines up.

[jeffh]

Really, the only thing shaft cuts are good for when doing any renovation work is to get all your multi-floor openings aligned so you can put in the separate floor objects in the right place yourself.

This is really about all the shaft tool does. It was created for a very use case of providing a tool that allows you to qucikly make openings in roofs/floors that will be in perfect alignment through the entire building bottom to top. It could probably use some polish to make it's behavior more consistant with other tools in Revit when it comes to phasing.

[truevis]

True, but that takes much longer than placing a single shaft opening cut that cuts all your floors and automatically lines up.
Doesn't take me too long. I have it down to pressing F6.

AutoHotKey code for 2009 (copy sketch lines to clipboard, first):

SetTitleMatchMode, 2
#IfWinActive, Revit
F6:: ; hotkey to paste to first level in list
Send, {del}{ALTDOWN}e{ALTUP}nn{ENTER}
return

[rkitect]

Remember that one can copy/paste-aligned sketch lines. Hence, a opening lines in a sketch can be made identical on different Floor sketches.

Until your intern forgets that inconspicuous hidden level in the project and your CDs are submitted incorrectly ;)

[tomnewsom]

A Floor-Based Generic Model family can be made to cut the floor, with correct appearence in Existing, Demo and Completed views. You're restricted to one floor at a time and to whatever shape the actual family is (can be parametricised). I use a "rectangular floor opening" object to cut holes in existing floors for rennovation projects.

[sobdeijn]

well one more nice feature of shaft is that you can place symbolic lines in it. So you can see a cross in every floor where the shaft cuts.

[tomnewsom]

Floor-based Families can do this as well, of course ;)