Need Advice for Large Project

[Jazzster11]

We're getting ready to start design development on a roughly 415,000SF, 10+ story, institutional use building that will be the 2nd and larger of 2 additions to an existing campus.

We just finished CD's for the 1st addition (which is roughly half the size of the next addition), and we ran into severe performance lag issues on the architectural and MEP side. So, I'm hoping to get some advice from those who are experienced with larger Revit projects to help us figure out how best to break up this new project.

We're planning on having a separate project file for a C&S package, but we're debating how to deal with the Fit-Out package. Right now we're considering the following 2 options:

Option 1: We keep all architectural fitout components in the same file but have a separate file for every 2 or 3 floors. The benefit would be coordination between archs and interior designers, but coordination between floors would be painful and keeping standards across 4 files would be tough.

Option 2: Have 1 arch file and 1 interior design file, each would encompass the entire building. This would allow each group to build their files as they see fit, but scheduling finishes and furniture in the ID file could be complicated if the rooms are in the Arch file, and keeping duplicated rooms coordinated would be tough.

Our MEP consultant will follow Option 1, and neither option should affect our structural engineer. We're well versed in phasing and design options, but this magnitude of a Revit project is still new to us.

Thanks in advance for the help.

- Alex

[cliff collins]

Some thoughts:

1. Use linked models for Shell/Core and Interiors

2. Use worksets to control all Linked models

3. Make sure all computers are 64 bit OS with at least 12GB ECC RAM

Memory is crucial on these huge jobs.

4. Place all Central Files on a dedicated Server if possible

cheers.....

[twiceroadsfool]

We're getting ready to start design development on a roughly 415,000SF, 10+ story, institutional use building that will be the 2nd and larger of 2 additions to an existing campus.

We just finished CD's for the 1st addition (which is roughly half the size of the next addition), and we ran into severe performance lag issues on the architectural and MEP side. So, I'm hoping to get some advice from those who are experienced with larger Revit projects to help us figure out how best to break up this new project.

We're planning on having a separate project file for a C&S package, but we're debating how to deal with the Fit-Out package. Right now we're considering the following 2 options:

Option 1: We keep all architectural fitout components in the same file but have a separate file for every 2 or 3 floors. The benefit would be coordination between archs and interior designers, but coordination between floors would be painful and keeping standards across 4 files would be tough.

Option 2: Have 1 arch file and 1 interior design file, each would encompass the entire building. This would allow each group to build their files as they see fit, but scheduling finishes and furniture in the ID file could be complicated if the rooms are in the Arch file, and keeping duplicated rooms coordinated would be tough.

Our MEP consultant will follow Option 1, and neither option should affect our structural engineer. We're well versed in phasing and design options, but this magnitude of a Revit project is still new to us.

Thanks in advance for the help.

- Alex

I would learn towards option 2 instead of option 1 if i had to pick, but i would also go with some combination of the two. I wouldnt break things up "geographically" in a tall building (IE every few floors), since items in taller buildings flow Systemically. The core will always move together, the Vert Cert will always move together, The skin will always move together. Break them up that way.

Links and Worksets together make Revit very scalable.

As Cliff mentioned, good hardware, 64 bit, and a ton of memory is nice. Anything over 6 GB will be fine for the scope youre talking about. We did an interdisciplinary project at 485,000 SF, on 32 bit systems with 4 GB of RAM. Ive got 8GM now, and im working on a 1.1m SF 13 storey building... And i load every workset, and every link, plus... I usually also have another session of Revit opened with another project while i support the staff. No hiccups.

[Jazzster11]

Thanks for the quick feed back guys.

If we did split up the architectural fit-out work from the finishes and furniture, how would that impact our schedules? I'm not completely sure, but I think our interior designers are currently scheduling finishes using room schedules. I know that we can schedule linked rooms, but would they be able to modify parameters to indicate the appropriate finishes if the rooms are linked?

We don't seem to be able to copy/monitor linked rooms, so I'm guessing that's out. Our ID's might prefer to have rooms in their file to give them the control that they need, but I'm concerned about maintaining consistency across the 2 files with several hundred rooms.

Again, thanks for the help.

- Alex

[bhanna173409]

I agree with Aaron. We're just finishing a project where we implemented a version of what you describe as Option 1 and it was painful. Managing multiple models when the structure has been sliced and diced becomes exponentially burdensome as the sophistication and complexity of the models increases throughout the course of the project and you need the severed parts of the building to "talk to each other". Furthermore, Option 1 would most likely necessitate linking all of the separate models into a "full" file (and please correct me if this has been addressed in RA2011, or if I'm totally wrong) but you cannot filter schedules by Level once files are linked in. For our particular project we needed schedules that looked at the entire project broken down by floor, so we had to add "Level" parameters to all families that required scheduling.

For whatever reason, we seem to have had better luck using multiple models when the models are broken up by system, rather than by entire building, or portions thereof. It requires diligent coordination, but you can still leverage all the advantages of a comprehensive BIM. The one exception we have found is that having Electrical included with the interior architectural components works extremely well, and eliminates a good amount of rework and miscommunication. This is mainly a result of the way our project processes shake out and the type of work we often do. May also be a result of young, exuberant professionals who are both facile with the software and willing to talk to each other, and having everyone under one roof (and within screaming distance).

Cliff alluded to the other component of large project coordination that we have found to be absolutely crucial: worksets. Using worksets to control linked models is helpful. I'd avoid using worksets as a substitute for CAD "layers," but a small number of clearly defined, ironclad worksets that are well managed is extremely helpful as an internal organizational tool on large projects.

[sbrown]

The ID model would have the rooms, the core and shell wouldn't.

[dhurtubise]

I only work on large projects and splitting is always a nightmare. For that size you shouldnt run into any major issues if... modelling is done right.
I've found over the year that the problem is actually not the hardware but the way people are modelling.
One of the project i work on right now is at 75% DD (500 000sf, 15 storey) and we have 3 firms working on the model remotely (Using Riverbed) and the file is still 160MB. All families are manage properly and so is the modelling... oh and no warnings of course.