Super PC config for REVIT ?

[kot]

Hi all,
We 're currently working on a large project. And the file is constantly growing. It will soon reach about 100 Mb. Zooming and making changes is too slow now, and it doesn't look like a network problem but harware (I mean slow PC). Current PC configuration is Pentium 4 3.4Ghz, 2 Gb of DDR RAM, ATI RADEON 9800 XT video card. And it's still very slow.

The question is if you didn't have any budget limitation what configuration would you recommend for super powerfull Revit workstation?
(What processor(s), MB, Video card ...etc)

[beegee]

This Cadalyst article (http://aec.cadalyst.com/aec/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=133493&pageID=1&sk=&date=) could be a good place to start.

[Jit]

I would build a AMD 64 fx machine

The higher bandwidth makes all the difference on normal tasks in revit

[Wes Macaulay]

Also try closing some worksets while you work -- if you don't need them, don't load them. This can speed things up immensely. In R7 it also releases RAM back to the OS.

[hand471037]

And that's a definite on the closing of worksets. We work on projects that size, and I have no idea how anyone would be able to do efficient work within Revit without closing and openings Worksets.

For example, if I'm only working on the site, like laying out parking or something, if I open the entire project, all worksets open, then it's abysmally slow. But if I only open the 'parking' workset, then it's incredibly faster, almost as if the project had nothing in it. Or another example, if all I'm doing is picking up red lines to the annotations, I'll close *all* of the user worksets, and only check out the sheet and view's worksets. Again, it's many many times faster. Or, a final example, when I render an exterior view of one of our projects, I close all of the interior worksets, and the render takes less time (less for the computer to think about) and is more stable (less memory is being used).

Opening and Closing worksets selectively later in the project is a *vital* thing to be doing... imagine doing the same project in Autocad, but every time you go to work on it you open every single drawing, xref, and sheet first, and you start to get a picture of why Opening and Closing worksets is so important. I get a tenfold increase in speed just by this alone, and my computer isn't as fast as yours ;)

So when opening the project, use the 'select worksets' option, and only pick the worksets you'll need to be open. Then, once open (and the project will load a lot faster than before), open and close the worksets by going to the Workset dialog, selecting a workset that you don't have checked out or borrowed (you might have to save to central and check them back in prior to closing), and hitting the 'close' and 'open' buttons. This is akin to 'freezing' a layer within Autocad, for once a workset is 'closed' Revit doesn't have to think about it anymore, and consequently uses less memory and runs a lot faster.

[kot]

Thanks everyone very much for your detailed comments. I really appreciate it. I'll pass the idea of closing worksets to our architects and we'll give it a try first.
In the meantime I just want to share with you some simple test results we've done on that big Revit file using 2 PCs. one PC P4 3.4 Ghz another P42.8 Ghz, all other hardware is identical. When something is changed on the drawing and process is started we could clearly see in task manager that memory (RAM) is hardly uses 50 % (of 2 Gb), BUT the processor hits the ceiling and holds at 100% all the time (when rendering finishes it goes down to normal). That means that the issue is the processor, not RAM that everyone is talking about. To confirm that it takes much less TIME for 3.4 Ghz processor to acomplish the same job then for 2.8 Ghz one. Also I doubt that AMD would be considerably faster then pentium, because the clock speed maters.

If anyone have comments on that please reply.

Considering the new Super PC config I came across the following:
1. Tyan motherboard that supports dual XEON processors 3.6 Ghz Thunder i7525 (S2676) with 800 FSB and EM64T, PCI Express x16 high-performance graphics slot
2. 2 or 4 Gb of DDR2 RAM
3. 2 Xeon 3.6 Ghz processors
4. Quadro FX 3400 videocard (PCI Express, 256 Mb)

But first I'd like to know two things: if dual physical processors (not virtual like P4 with hyperthreading) would make any difference to the performance ? And would such high end powerfull video card decrease the time and improve the performance?

By the way I couldn't find dual processor AMD motherboard with PCI express graphics slot to build AMD machine.

[hand471037]

Don't so certain about the clock speed being the determining factor in performance. The AMD stuff has a slower than Intel clock speed, but if you look at performance reviews, it outperforms the Intel hardware in many ways. Clock speed isn't so cut-and-dry, it's like saying that an old 4000 lbs. Chevy is 'faster' than a 1000 lbs. Lotus because the Chevy has 100 more Horsepower. ;)

But I'd agree it's probably not your Ram, for I work with 1 gig on projects the same size and don't max it out, except for sometimes when rendering. You've got 2, which should be enough.

Duals would only make a difference when rendering, otherwise Revit can only use 1 processor at a time. So only if you're doing a lot of rendering would the duals really make a huge difference, however, duals are nice and more stable than single processor or HT machines, so if you have the money to go that route it's a good way to go. But, again, unless you really render all the time you're probably throwing your money away on duals.

A better display card will only help if you're using OpenGL acceleration right now. Are you? Do you have it turned on, with the latest drivers, and is it set to performance vs. quality?

Finally, some folks here on AUGI have said that they have had good luck switching to a gigabit network in regards to opening and saving large projects. You might research the cost of that upgrade, for it might be less if most of your machines are gigabit-ready, rather than scrapping a whole lot of computers and getting new ones.

Again, I think it's your work habits. Your going to try to better manage your worksets, which will make things a lot better for you, but also communicate to your users to try to keep a minimal number of views open at any given time, and when they have to have multiple views open to not overlap them but to tile them instead. I've noticed here that many people like to work with many 'floating' and overlapping views open at the same time, which really bogs things down. Every time they do anything, Revit has to update all of those views, for it thinks them visible (even if it's only a little corner) and so you waste a ton of time redrawing. Having one view, maximized, or to only have a handful of views open at any given time and to tile them (Window -> Tile, or the shortcut 'WT') will make things update much faster after an edit or command.

Also you might have a lot of stuff in your project that you don't need. Purging and deleting old Raster Images, Imported DWG's, and such can really bring the file size down, which in turn will make it run better.

[kot]

That's a good point about OpenGL. I'll check it Tomorrow. By default ATI drivers should have it enabled.

[Taylor A]

There are few more comments on this thread
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=11352&page=2
on this site about AMD. Just bought one myself....at least 4x faster than my old P4/2.8

[Wes Macaulay]

And whatever system you use, make sure the video card supports OpenGL by-the-book!

[adegnan]

And whatever system you use, make sure the video card supports OpenGL by-the-book!
How can we judge "by the book" on Open GL performance? Is it clearly listed vs partial compliance?

Does anyone happen to know if the Matrox dual-head cards are "by the book?"

[Wes Macaulay]

The big names are the ones that would be the most likely supporters - those that make good products: ATI, nVidia, 3D Labs, etc,

[FK]

My experience (and mind you, I'm not the graphics guru) is that Matrox's OpenGL support is inadequate, NVidia's, excellent, everybody else's, in between.

[hand471037]

I second FK's recommendations. That's been my past experance. Look into Nvidia first (at least I would).

[Wes Macaulay]

And to get on my broken record again... nVidia cards are great, but you MUST have the right driver.

That means getting the driver from the manufacturer of the card and NOT directly from nVidia's website, or whatever Windows thinks you should use.

nVidia cards that work well include Dell workstations and laptops (go to their website to get their video drivers for your particular model), Gainward, AOpen, Chaintech. We have had problems with MSI and Asus-brand nVidia-based cards, so unless someone else can vouch for them, I would avoid them.

[adegnan]

And to get on my broken record again... nVidia cards are great, but you MUST have the right driver.

That means getting the driver from the manufacturer of the card and NOT directly from nVidia's website, or whatever Windows thinks you should use.

nVidia cards that work well include Dell workstations and laptops (go to their website to get their video drivers for your particular model), Gainward, AOpen, Chaintech. We have had problems with MSI and Asus-brand nVidia-based cards, so unless someone else can vouch for them, I would avoid them.
Aha, that explains a lot of problems! So if I buy a nVidia card, how do I find out who actually manufactured it?? I have a nVidia card AGP plus a ATI Radeon PCI card for my 2nd monitor. I used to run into horrible problems and have to re-install the driver every time I re-started the computer. Not sure how I ever did solve it frankly. So how do I know who actually makes any given nVidia card?

(Great education!!)

[Wes Macaulay]

If you bought the workstation from some company, ask them. If you have nothing to go on, look at the card and see if there are any identifying numbers, logos, etc. If you still have nothing, take it out and go to the manufacturer's websites and see if you can visually identify it.

Because this is such a major issue, I tell people if the card they purchased has no ID information on it, write it down on a label and stick it to the video card. Information, boxes, and manuals tend to get lost over time and who's going to remember what brand the card is?

[hand471037]

This is a big point of confusion you bring up, and good to point it out again. ATI, Matrox, et all, are Companies that make Video Cards. Nvidia only makes the Chipset, not the whole card, yet people refer to cards with Nvidia chips as an 'Nvidia' card. That's why you have to go to the folk that made the card or your computer, and not Nvidia directly...