Light and Vent automatic schedule {solved}

[DoTheBIM]

I've been toying with schedules a bit to get to a light and vent. My first stab resulted in the second schedule in the pic attached. In a quest to find and answer on how to avoid manually adding up the actual values... I turned to AUGI. After some searching, reading about 4 threads of ideas, experimenting I came up with the setup 1st in the pic attached. It's fully automatic, but has the limitation that it can't check to see if code requirement is passed like the 2nd schedule. I'm OK with this as it saves a ton of time adding up and entering the actual light/vent values and also saves errors as you might see if you inspected my data closely. Others may not be OK with that but I think this trade off is well worth automatic.

My one downfall is all of my doors and windows had to be flipped inside out to get them to associate the Room to them. What do I have to change in order to get that fixed? Other than remodeling all my families and flipping the geometry so they are oriented backward from the family templates Interior/Exterior labels.:roll:

[eric.piotrowicz]

When placing doors if you insert them swinging into the room you want them associated to and they will stay associated to that room no matter which way they are flipped afterwards.

[DaveP]

Revit really doesn't know which way a Door swings.
It just knows which Room is on either side of the Wall in which the Door is placed.
When you place a door, it usually identifies the room where the swing is as the "To: Room" and the one on the other side of the Wall as the "From: Room".
After the initial placement, however, Revit really doesn't care which way you flip the Door around, the To and From remain the same as when you placed it.

We've created a Door Schedule that shows only
Door Number To:Room Number From:Room Number

That way you can easily see which Room is the To and which is the From. You can pick either Room and switch them. It also makes for a handy check to verify the Door Number. If it doesn't match either Room, the Number is probably wrong.

The reason Revit doesn't automatically assign To and From (and switch them when the door flips) is because the direction of the swing doesn't always indicate To and From. Usually, yes, but not always. A door opening into a Room would usually "belong" to that Room, but what if the Door is in a recessed alcove and swings into the Corridor. Or an Exterior Door. Swings into nothing.

[DoTheBIM]

...they will stay associated to that room no matter which way they are flipped afterwards.

Not true. Just tried it in the default imperial project template and although the doors come in room aware... if I flip the swing to the exterior. it's no longer room aware.. Curiously the default windows do not come in room aware unless I flip them inside out.

[iankids]

I've been toying with schedules a bit to get to a light and vent. My first stab resulted in the second schedule in the pic attached. In a quest to find and answer on how to avoid manually adding up the actual values... I turned to AUGI. After some searching, reading about 4 threads of ideas, experimenting I came up with the setup 1st in the pic attached. It's fully automatic, but has the limitation that it can't check to see if code requirement is passed like the 2nd schedule. I'm OK with this as it saves a ton of time adding up and entering the actual light/vent values and also saves errors as you might see if you inspected my data closely. Others may not be OK with that but I think this trade off is well worth automatic.

My one downfall is all of my doors and windows had to be flipped inside out to get them to associate the Room to them. What do I have to change in order to get that fixed? Other than remodeling all my families and flipping the geometry so they are oriented backward from the family templates Interior/Exterior labels.:roll:

Seriously Impressive!

I have been playing with this off and on for a while and never got close to your elegant schedule - mostly I set up two schedules, one for the room info and one for the windows - kinda clunky.

It would be great to understand the process a bit better - are you using Multi Category Schedule or shared parameters to get the disparate bits of info into the one schedule?

Cheers

Ian

[DoTheBIM]

Seriously Impressive!

I have been playing with this off and on for a while and never got close to your elegant schedule - mostly I set up two schedules, one for the room info and one for the windows - kinda clunky.

It would be great to understand the process a bit better - are you using Multi Category Schedule or shared parameters to get the disparate bits of info into the one schedule?

Cheers

Ian
I still have two schedules, but one is inclusive of doors and windows via multi-category. Won't be clunky at all once I get this blasted room association figured out. If you want to be a purist and use one schedule, there will still be manual uncoordinated entry.

I plan on posting what I have set up once I get this bug worked out about what determines the window and door room association... Otherwise it's a waste as you wouldn't want all the interiors of of doors and windows showing on the elevations. Seems like I will have to waste some time sending to support. I have tried moving all kinds of geometry & reference planes around in the families to see if I can get the room info to switch... so far no luck. I just can't figure out what is on the exterior of a window that makes it think it's inside a room.

[eric.piotrowicz]

Not true. Just tried it in the default imperial project template and although the doors come in room aware... if I flip the swing to the exterior. it's no longer room aware.. Curiously the default windows do not come in room aware unless I flip them inside out.
Not sure about windows, havent done alot with them yet. But what I meant about doors was that once the door is placed it retains the original To:Room no matter which way it is flipped. So if it swings to the Exterior on placement it will keep that room recognition unless you go to the door schedule and change it.Something nice is that the door schedule only gives you the option of the rooms on either side of the door to pick from, not every room in the project.

[DoTheBIM]

...But what I meant about doors was that once the door is placed it retains the original To:Room no matter which way it is flipped. ....I see what you mean now. That can be seen using a seperate door schedule, windows are the same. I'm not using from room or to room that can be found in seperate door and window schedules. I just tried editing the from room to room and it made no difference. the only way I could get room name to change in a multi-category schedule is by flipping the object inside out... which is sad to be this close yet so far away.

[iankids]

I stumbled onto a thread which had a link http://redbolts.com/blog/post/2009/10/08/Doing-it-all-in-Families.aspx where a clever kiwi has written a macro which seems to do what we are after.

I am out all day at a course but will do some more testing tonight.

Ian

I had a bit more of a play this evening. At first, I thought it was all going swimmingly, but then, it would seem that the room area calculation is not automatic but rather a manual input.

I will try it again and see if I may have stuffed something up

[DoTheBIM]

I stumbled onto a thread which had a link http://redbolts.com/blog/post/2009/10/08/Doing-it-all-in-Families.aspx where a clever kiwi has written a macro which seems to do what we are after.

I am out all day at a course but will do some more testing tonight.

Ian

I had a bit more of a play this evening. At first, I thought it was all going swimmingly, but then, it would seem that the room area calculation is not automatic but rather a manual input.

I will try it again and see if I may have stuffed something up
I was so hoping not to have to go that route. I've not found the time to learn how to get things done with the API. Curiously I have an interest in testing/disecting the macro from your link, but I can't even get it to do anything at all in Revit 2011. I know it was made in 2010 version, but I wonder if there's something that has to be changed to make it run in 2011.

Meanwhile I have a support request in and a specialist is on the case and will get back to me when they have more information for me :roll:. 99% of the time for me that means it will get submitted to product development for an "enhancement"

[iankids]

I had no problems getting it to run in 2011.

I opened the file - upgraded as normal - Selected yes when asked if I wanted to enable the macro. See attached jpg.

The macro calculates both the window area and the glass area within the window and is therefore very accurate in allocating the glazed area to the shedule. Having read the blog, it would seem that the area should be working, I will email the author and ask.

I agree that it would be far better to do this without an API (learning C# - No thanks), but in terms of accuracy, it might ultimately be the better way.

Having said all that, I totally love your second (semi - automatic) schedule. The simple yes/no calculation for compliance is so good! I have never been able to get a conditional yes/no formular to work in a schedule - the correct syntax always eludes me. Personally, even though there is a manual input, it is, as I mentioned earlier, very elegant.

Cheers,

Ian

[iankids]

Further Update on RedBolts window schedule.

Having played around with the macro for a few days, it would now seem that the code doesn't function fully in 2011. Given that it was created for 2010, I guess that is not all that surprising.

I am now sort of back to square one trying to cobble together a series of workarounds to create a workable light and ventilation schedule.

I find myself stumped on how to get the total glazing area (or some approximation of same) for multiple windows to report as a single line. DoTheBim, any guidance here would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Ian

"rant on"

BTW, AUTODESK seriously guys, what is the problem here!

Is there some sort of internecine warfare going on within the code where providing this functionality is a deal breaker. Having read almost every post on the topic, I find that many go back to 2004 or further!!

This ability to check for light and ventilation compliance would be used and needed by almost 100% of architects and designers.

Anthony, Erik, Scott, Carl.....anyone like to respond and let us know what the problem is.

"rant off"

[DoTheBIM]

.... I find myself stumped on how to get the total glazing area (or some approximation of same) for multiple windows to report as a single line. DoTheBim, any guidance here would be greatly appreciated....If it just windows your after, a window schedule works for me just fine. My problem comes in when trying to do both windows and doors. I have a support request in at Autodesk now (actually its probably a little over a week old now). They were unable to replicate the "problem". So I had to send a short video and revit file to demonstrate. Haven't heard anything for a few days now.

[DoTheBIM]

...Meanwhile I have a support request in and a specialist is on the case and will get back to me when they have more information for me :roll:. 99% of the time for me that means it will get submitted to product development for an "enhancement"

Autodesk response:
Thank you for your continued patience in this matter. I have received an update from our Development group.
This is more of a design issue than a bug. Room parameters in multi-category schedules were never designed for things like doors and windows that sit inside a wall between two rooms. Rather, they were designed for things that sit in the interior of a room. To find out what room an element is in, Revit does something fairly simple: it just looks at the center point of the element (the midpoint of the element's bounding box). When that logic is applied to elements that sit inside of walls, the results are pretty meaningless. A small asymmetry in the design of a window makes it a tiny bit closer to one side of the wall than the other. In general I don't think there is any way for Revit to give the right result without some form of user input. If a door connects a hallway and an office, I suspect people would want to associate it with the office regardless of swing direction or anything else. With the From Room and To Room fields in door and window schedules, users have the ability to swap which room is shown, but we don't have anything like that in multi-category schedules now.
At this point they don't have a work around for this issue.
If you want, you can use the following link to submit feedback or a feature request, regarding this option, to our Development group:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1109794 (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1109794)

Did I not call it?:roll::roll::roll:

[iankids]

If it just windows your after, a window schedule works for me just fine. My problem comes in when trying to do both windows and doors. I have a support request in at Autodesk now (actually its probably a little over a week old now). They were unable to replicate the "problem". So I had to send a short video and revit file to demonstrate. Haven't heard anything for a few days now.

Yep, the windows by themselves I can get to work comfortable as a semi automatic schedule - manual input for the room area is all it need, but the doors and windows in one, that is a whole other level of complexity which has got me stumped.

BTW I had a chat to the member who had created the API for 2010. He was surprised the thing ran at all given the huge changes that have gone on behind the scene with API with 2011. He mention that although he was exceedingly busy at the moment, he would try to have a look at it in a few weeks time. If he does get to revise it, may we email Autodesk to buy the code off him and put it up as an enhancement. :-)

Ian

[DoTheBIM]

Yep, the windows by themselves I can get to work comfortable as a semi automatic schedule - manual input for the room area is all it need, but the doors and windows in one, that is a whole other level of complexity which has got me stumped...Windows by themselves should easily be fully automated (No manual input) using either from room or to room and a second room only schedule right beside the window schedule as you can have the room area in the room schedule but not the window schedule. Will look like one schedule on paper. Just have to hide a column or so in one of the schedules and make sure the sorting and grouping agree in both schedules so they populate equally. This is what is happening in the first example of the first post in this thread.