Door between brick columns

[dzatto]

What's the best way to do this?

I have 2 brick columns (brick surrounding my structural members). We mount our overhead doors to the brick column. The column is 13" thick and the door mounts on the back side.

I tried creating a column and putting in a wall between the columns to host the door. The problem is the material at the corner of the column is missing (since there is a wall there).

Is there a way to create a door that isn't hosted by anything? That way I can just place it between the columns as needed? I'm assuming that will cause issues.

How would you do it?

[cliff collins]

Make the columns out of walls.

That should make everything work.

cheers

[dzatto]

Make the columns out of walls.

That should make everything work.

cheers
That's what I did. At least I think that's what I did. lol

I created the columns out of walls, but there is a 10' opening between the columns. The doors would need to NOT be wall hosted to fit in the opening, right?

[cliff collins]

Make another "wall" that's the opening--and then insert the door into it.
Is there a header over the door--i.e. beam? is it a CMU bond beam or steel?
This affects the answer.....

cheers

[dzatto]

Make another "wall" that's the opening--and then insert the door into it.
Is there a header over the door--i.e. beam? is it a CMU bond beam or steel?
This affects the answer.....

cheers
That's what I tried originally. The returns on the brick lose their pattern because there is a wall there, even though the door is cutting the entire wall out.

It's an opening with 4 2x12 headers and a pony wall on top. I lag a 3.5X6 angle to the headers to create a brick lentil.

I was going to show all that in detail rather than modeling it all. What do you think?

[cliff collins]

Can you post an image?

cheers

[dzatto]

UMMMMMMMMmaybe. But first..................LUNCH!! :beer:

I'll get something together in a few. Thanks for your help.

[dzatto]

What's easier to see what I need:
Actual photos of a building or some cad sections and drawings?

[cliff collins]

Your Revit model and some pics of what yer tryin ta do.....

cheers

[dzatto]

models too big to send! Looking for pics now.

[dzatto]

Okay, here's a pick of the structural columns and the headers above. The brick columns surround the structural columns and the door mounts to the brick. The other pic shows the overhead door track mounted to the brick column.

Don't mind the big hole in the floor. I'll model that later. :lol:

[cliff collins]

Thanks--I'm beginning to understand.
Do you have a shot of one that's already finished? with the OH door open, so we can
see exactly what you are trying to achieve?

Seems like a simple column/pilaster built with walls, and the OH door
just happens to carve out the entire wall/opening width?

In Revit, what exact problems are you having? Can you post the file?
or a screen shot of plan, elevation, etc.

cheers

[cdatechguy]

Just a thought.....whoever said you have to have a wall to put in a door?

[Ning Zhou]

Just a thought.....whoever said you have to have a wall to put in a door?

right, use GM w/o any host, and then switch to door category.

[Scott Womack]

The other possibility is to place the wall in, just short ofthe columns, if you select each of the blue dots on the end of this wall, and right-click and "Disallow Joins" it will not disturb the pattern on the "brick columns". Then you can insert any type of door family you have, without having to rename, and chage it to generic model, etc.

[cliff collins]

What Scott said........

cheers

[dzatto]

The other possibility is to place the wall in, just short ofthe columns, if you select each of the blue dots on the end of this wall, and right-click and "Disallow Joins" it will not disturb the pattern on the "brick columns". Then you can insert any type of door family you have, without having to rename, and chage it to generic model, etc.
Yep, that should do it. Forgot all about the "disallow joins" option.

I originally thought of creating a door that's not hosted. That's how I did it in ACA. The door is not hosted by anything. Scott's option should work fine.

Thanks guys.

Actually, should I got through the trouble of modeling the track system for cross sections, or just draw them in the section by hand? I'm not sure if that will make the model too heavy.

[cliff collins]

My personal opinion is: ( not dogma )

Model it.

( Period. ) to quote another famous forum member.

Add it to the door family.

Then anywhere you cut, you do not need to "draft" anything.

( tasting some cool refreshing Kool-Aid )

cheers......

[patricks]

I was just about to suggest what Scott suggested. That way if you have any of the host wall above the door, it will show in elevations, but will still keep the plan cut patterns of your column wrap walls intact. I have run into this several times myself when we have a recessed building entrance with brick-veneer walls on both sides and a storefront that spans the entire width of the recess.

As for the door tracks, we just have symbolic lines in our OH door families that show in sections or elevations to represent the track as it curves up and runs horizontally up high. I suppose I could model some tracks in the family as a simple extrusion drawn in elevation, but eh.... whenever I get around to it. :lol:

[dzatto]

My personal opinion is: ( not dogma )

Model it.

( Period. ) to quote another famous forum member.

Add it to the door family.

Then anywhere you cut, you do not need to "draft" anything.

( tasting some cool refreshing Kool-Aid )

cheers......
Okay then. I decided to model the door as a generic model, and also model the tracks. I think this will be the easiest way. I won't have to worry about adding walls and such. Just place the door, position it, and move one. The wall above the door is a different wall anyway. I guess I could model the brick columns and walls above as stacked walls, but eh......we'll see how this works. lol

Door is done, working on the tracks now. Wish me luck!

[Ning Zhou]

just wonder if there's an easy way to change existing wall-hosted door / window / etc. into non-wall-hosted?

[patricks]

Okay then. I decided to model the door as a generic model, and also model the tracks. I think this will be the easiest way. I won't have to worry about adding walls and such. Just place the door, position it, and move one. The wall above the door is a different wall anyway. I guess I could model the brick columns and walls above as stacked walls, but eh......we'll see how this works. lol

Door is done, working on the tracks now. Wish me luck!

So you decided to make the door non-hosted and you're just going to place it in a "hole" that's already in your model?

You are going to change the Generic family type to a Door type, right? Otherwise it won't schedule as a door.

[dzatto]

That was actually pretty easy to do. I haven't checked to see if it schedules correctly, but the door flexes!

Now, how do I "assign" a door category to it so my schedule knows it's a door? Is it as simple as choosinig "door" under the category and parameters tool?

EDIT
apparantly it is that simple! lol
I inserted it, tagged it. It's a door! lol

AAhhhhh refreshing Kool Aide. A guy could get addicted to this stuff.

[dzatto]

Okay, ran into a problem. I designed the door family at 1/2" scale. My drawing is at 1/4". The lineweights are way too heavy. I know I can manually edit the line weights with the line weight too, but how do I change that in the family?

[patricks]

Line weights of the family should be driven by the subcategory settings in your Object Styles settings in the Project Styles.

This is one disadvantage of starting a family with one template and changing to a different template - the required subcategories aren't always there.

Open the OH door family and check the subcategory of each line and solid object and set the to be the required subcategory of doors - some of them may need to be created. Then when you load it back into the project the line weights will follow your door subcategory settings, i.e. panel, frame/mullion, glass, etc.

[dzatto]

Line weights of the family should be driven by the subcategory settings in your Object Styles settings in the Project Styles.

This is one disadvantage of starting a family with one template and changing to a different template - the required subcategories aren't always there.

Open the OH door family and check the subcategory of each line and solid object and set the to be the required subcategory of doors - some of them may need to be created. Then when you load it back into the project the line weights will follow your door subcategory settings, i.e. panel, frame/mullion, glass, etc.
I changed the sub category in the family. But when I reload it into the project, the project is overriding them to the values set there. I want the other doors to remain the same, but not the custom doors I just drew.

How can I keep it from overriding the families values?

[patricks]

To be clear - you want your elements in your OH Door family to NOT follow the subcategory settings for other doors in the project, correct? You need to go into your OH Door family and create new subcategories such as OH Door Panel, OH Door Tracks, etc. Then load it back in, and you can then set those subcategories individually from the sub's driving the graphics for the other doors in the project.

[dzatto]

To be clear - you want your elements in your OH Door family to NOT follow the subcategory settings for other doors in the project, correct? You need to go into your OH Door family and create new subcategories such as OH Door Panel, OH Door Tracks, etc. Then load it back in, and you can then set those subcategories individually from the sub's driving the graphics for the other doors in the project.
Yep, that's what I just did. Works great.

I just hate adding a bunch of sub categories if I don't have to. Not that it matters (or does it??).
I'm still used to ACA. I try to keep stuff to a minimum.

Thanks for the help. :beer:

One family down, 2 million more to go. lol

[cliff collins]

This is why it would be faster and a better outcome to begin with a door family,use disallow join and just stay with the hosted door family.

All the effort to create a new door from scratch as a GM, then convert it, add categories,
adjust object styles is a great Revit exercise but not a very efficient way to get the model
going quickly and correctly.

just sayin'.......

cheers

[dzatto]

This is why it would be faster and a better outcome to begin with a door family,use disallow join and just stay with the hosted door family.

All the effort to create a new door from scratch as a GM, then convert it, add categories,
adjust object styles is a great Revit exercise but not a very efficient way to get the model
going quickly and correctly.

just sayin'.......

cheers
Yeah, NOW you tell me. :roll: lol

Don't you have some Kool Aide to make??

[patricks]

This is why it would be faster and a better outcome to begin with a door family,use disallow join and just stay with the hosted door family.

All the effort to create a new door from scratch as a GM, then convert it, add categories,
adjust object styles is a great Revit exercise but not a very efficient way to get the model
going quickly and correctly.



He would have had to do that anyway since he wants the OH doors to have different line weights than the rest of the doors in the model. Even as a regular door family, he would still have to add subcategories and adjust object styles to get the same end result. Converting the GM takes only a second, and you don't have the host wall and opening in the template to worry about.

But, having said all that, I'd still probably start with the door template anyway, since it already has the height and width parameters set up. :)

[dzatto]

He would have had to do that anyway since he wants the OH doors to have different line weights than the rest of the doors in the model. Even as a regular door family, he would still have to add subcategories and adjust object styles to get the same end result. Converting the GM takes only a second, and you don't have the host wall and opening in the template to worry about.

But, having said all that, I'd still probably start with the door template anyway, since it already has the height and width parameters set up. :)
Eh, it took 2 seconds to add a width and height parameter. lol

I like my overhead door family! Not too bad for my first parametric family in Revit.

I even added a parameter that makes the door track return 6" greater than the height of the door. I like it! Now I need to learn nested families so my mullions can array if the door ever gets wider or taller. Right now it just centers them, so I'd have huge windows in my door. lol