Can not select viewports

[rudolfesterhuyse]

Can anyone help please me with this problem:

My viewports drawn in DEFpoints layer cannot be selected!

I have unlocked all layers.
When I draw a new viewport in a new layer I can select it.
If I move it to Defpoints I can still manipulate it until I deselect it.
If I create a new viewport in defpoints I cannot select it.

I have many viewports and sheets in the file and I now cannot maipulate or remove viewports

Thanks

[aloraw]

Is your 0 (zero) layer off?

[Richard.Kent]

Thaw layer zero.

[cadtag]

Rule #2:

Never Ever use DEFPOINTS for anything you create. It's a 'magic' layer name hardwired into the AutoCAD software, and does not behave as a normal layer.

Acad has had the ability to set any layer to non-plot for quite a while now, so do yourself a favor and create s specific nonplot layer for viewports

[irneb]

Rule #2:

Never Ever use DEFPOINTS for anything you create. It's a 'magic' layer name hardwired into the AutoCAD software, and does not behave as a normal layer.

Acad has had the ability to set any layer to non-plot for quite a while now, so do yourself a favor and create s specific nonplot layer for viewportsSecond that. One of the major "faults" with defpoints is these unselectable entities (not just viewports). I've even had situations where entities became unselectable even though they were never on Defpoints (even some in Model Space). And thaw/on/unlocking 0 & Defpoints didn't solve the problem. For some reason it seems that those entities become permanently unselectable.

My only solution was to create copies of those by selecting using select all (Ctrl+A), deselecting the still-selectable entities by holding down Shift and crossing over everything. Then Copy @0,0 and Erase previous.

[tedg]

Rule #2:

Never Ever use DEFPOINTS for anything you create. It's a 'magic' layer name hardwired into the AutoCAD software, and does not behave as a normal layer.

Acad has had the ability to set any layer to non-plot for quite a while now, so do yourself a favor and create s specific nonplot layer for viewports

Agreed! It was understandable to use defpoints for viewports in release 14 and under because "No Plot" layers didn't become available until ACAD 2000.

A National Cad Standard (NCS) allowable layer name for a viewport would be "G-ANNO-NPLT".

[USMCBody]

I've been using defpoints for VP's for many years now and I have never had a problem with not being able to select a VP or any object because it was on defpoints...

I have had a problem selecting an objects before for a few reasons.

It seems that AutoCAD needs to be kicked on a rare occasion by Refreshing. Sometimes you need to give it a harder kick by go to another tab and then back. Basically it seems to me too be a hardware glitch.

The other reason that I have not been able to select an object is because it is on a layer nested in a block or other object. In this path other layers in that block are turned off or frozen one way or another. (Ex. layer block resides on is off but a nested layer is on. sometimes it will show the nested layer that is on [wither hardware glitch similar to the one above or some type of software bug]) (Another example and more common is that the layer the block is on is on and a few nested layers in the block are turned off)

Just keep a few saying in mind when using AutoCAD.

Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago.
-Bernard Berenson.

and most importantly

Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
-Isaac Asimov

[irneb]

Actually those have been with us for some time. The problem with Defpoints malbehaving stems from LayFrz / LayOff when you pick lines inside blocks ... depending on your settings it freezes / turns off the layer the line was drawn on (inside the block) which is usually Layer 0. When 0 is turned off / frozen, you can't select anything drawn on Defpoints. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=7601783&linkID=9240657

But further, in my experience ... even if you turn 0 back on ... even if you thaw, on & unlock ALL layers ... you end up with some entities being un-selectable. A refresh doesn't help, changing between tabs doesn't help, regen doesn't help, close & open doesn't help, shutdown & restart doesn't help. This I first experienced about 3 years ago using Vanilla 2006, it got worse in 2007, but seems to have been fixed since 2008 ... well the last time I found this was mid last year - I think there was a 2008 SP after that which might have fixed it.

Further to this, since 2002 Audit will move all entities on Defpoints to a $AUDIT-BAD-LAYER: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=3007657&linkID=9240615 and
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=3268084&linkID=9240615

[cadtag]

...

and most importantly

Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
-Isaac Asimov

like competent programming has ever happened.......

but in that vein, defpoints is a layer name encoded in the software for dimension objects. it has no other purpose, and although exposed (by developer laziness/complacency) was never intended for end user use. That's the honesty of the computer at work. Do not expect defpoints to behave as a normal layer, and do not be surprised if at some point in the future the behavior previously expected with defpoints changes to meet a developer's whim.

There are better, more predictable ways to generate non-plotting viewports.

[jaberwok]

and there has never been a need to place viewports on layer defpoints in order to avoid plotting the viewport(s) because freezing the layer that carries the viewports has always made the viewport boundary invisible whilst leaving the viewport content both visible and plottable.

[irneb]

and there has never been a need to place viewports on layer defpoints in order to avoid plotting the viewport(s) because freezing the layer that carries the viewports has always made the viewport boundary invisible whilst leaving the viewport content both visible and plottable.Yep, even in R14 this is the way I used to do it. Now it's easier because of the Plot / No Plot setting per layer. I've even got some layers for construction lines and area boundaries which is used for calculating / aligning / temporary stuff ... but I nearly always want them not plotted.

The other nice thing about not using Defpoints but rather a no-plot layer is: you can alter the behavior for a XRef. For whatever reason you can set an XRefed layer to be plotted / not different from the original. You can't do this to Defpoints.

[irneb]

like competent programming has ever happened.......Very true ... that story the banks usually spin about a computer glitch springs to mind. A computer can't make a mistake - it's ALWAYS human error. Be it the programmer, the software designer, the hardware builder, or the keyboard-seat-interface.

[ryan.washburn]

Here is a quick workaround. Usually when the viewport becomes invisible it has something to do with entities on defpoints being corrupted. Use the layer translator routine and force all objects to a new layer (i.e. "noplot"). After running the layer translator routine, the corrupted/invisible viewport boundary should appear. Finally, you will have to reselect any other entities translated to your new layer and put them back on "defpoints" if you want them there.

[ccowgill]

Old thread, but putting anything on the defpoints layer is plain bad advice, even if it was there before, you should begin getting away from using that layer. Everyone needs to start at somepoint.

[dgodfather]

I really haven't ever ran into any problems using the defpoints layer for entities therefor I can't follow the reasoning behind not using it. I use it quite often. =O

Can someone explain a repeatable step in which I might have a problem with defpoints to prove the point?

[tedg]

I really haven't ever ran into any problems using the defpoints layer for entities therefor I can't follow the reasoning behind not using it. I use it quite often. =O

Can someone explain a repeatable step in which I might have a problem with defpoints to prove the point?

This post lists/explains allot of the reasons not to use defpoints (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?120475-Can-not-select-viewports&p=1080382&viewfull=1#post1080382)

..and it's just good practice to use something else for viewports and non-plottable layers.

[jaberwok]

I really haven't ever ran into any problems using the defpoints layer for entities therefor I can't follow the reasoning behind not using it. I use it quite often. =O

Can someone explain a repeatable step in which I might have a problem with defpoints to prove the point?

As stated before, Defpoints is created by AutoCAD following the instructions coded by AutoDesk programmers . AutoDesk might decide that Defpoints should work differently in a future release and you will have no control over that behaviour.
Defpoints has special qualities for specific reasons - do not use it.

[irneb]

I really haven't ever ran into any problems using the defpoints layer for entities therefor I can't follow the reasoning behind not using it. I use it quite often. =O

Can someone explain a repeatable step in which I might have a problem with defpoints to prove the point?The most obvious one:

Draw a line on Defpoints.
Freeze layer 0 (very easy to do by accident using the LayFrz command)
Try to move that line you've just drawn on Defpoints ... go ahead ... TRY!:mrgreen:

Please don't read this as some personal attack. I've seen people get extremely emotional about this, and I'm just trying to explain the reasons I have for not using defpoints. You might be lucky that in your DWG's you've never made something which adjusts the behaviour of objects drawn on defpoints. Unfortunately I've had too many of these happen to me, causing lots of lost work and extra time to get my deliverables out.

For that reason I'm avoiding defpoints like the plague. Even though the "issues" might only happen in special circumstances or very infrequently, the fact that they have happened in the past (causing huge problems) makes me extremely scared of them. And these days (since the non-plot setting per layer) there is absolutely no reson to use defpoints for such a thing as: But I want to place some linework / anything else somewhere I can see it, but it won't plot. You can make your own layer(s) for that purpose, and they're more controllable (especially when using xrefs).

[irneb]

Here's a sample screen cast of what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT4Wxxekj14
The steps I've followed:

Ensure Defpoints is current
Draw a line
Freeze 0
Try to select line
Thaw 0
Now select line
Again freeze 0
Select line through using the All option
Move line
Thaw 0
Try to select the line

Thus if you modify an object placed on Defpoints while Layer 0 is frozen, that object becomes PERMANENTLY unselectable.

[MBROWN.160848]

We created layers called viewport_print and viewport_not_print. Just click on the printer icon in the viewport properties to meet your needs. We also use the same tamplates alot, so I put a viewport in the template so that it is ready to use and on the correct layer.

[M.Jamal Khan]

this problem i have already face. when i was convert vport in defpoint, it will automatically become invisible.
now i am using my own layer nonplot layer..,.,.,.,.,.,. tension free

[dannyk346068]

I highly recommend not to touch "Layer 0" and avoid the use of the "Layer Defpoints". For quite some time you have the privilege to set a Layer not to print.
Both mentioned layers are special.Long time ago, we used Layer Defpoints but now, try to get accustomed to new layer options.

[irneb]

Layer 0 has a special purpose: When you create blocks, you can place the linework inside them on layer 0, then each instance of that block will assume the layer on which it is placed. It's as if you set those lines' layer to be something like "ByBlock". Unfortunately there's no other way to have this happen in AutoCAD. You can set their colour / linetype / lineweight / plotstyle to be ByBlock, but not their layer - for that layer 0 can be used (and ONLY FOR THAT).

Note however that this scenario only applies if you use your drawings exclusively inside AutoCAD itself. E.g. if you draw details in ACad and then link them into Revit, everything (including the stuff inside blocks) which are drawn on layer 0 will be listed as if they're on layer 0. This "special feature" of layer 0 does not apply when linking the DWG into another program (at least not into Revit).

Layer Defpoints should never be used since there are lots of better alternatives which will not give these type of issues. If you do use Defpoints, then be warned that some commands in acad WILL cause unselectable objects and that these might become permanently unselectable. If you can live with that (and some other problems which Defpoints causes), then by all means go use it - just NEVER send me your drawings: I don't want to be placed in such a position, I want to do my work instead of troubleshooting problems.

[dan3ya681125]

Augians,

Quick fix on this Acad Bug.

1. Go to Layer Properties Manager
2. Find Depoints layer
3. Rename Depoint to any name (this should make the layer selectable)
4. Rename it back to Depoints

Please let me know if this helps.

thanks..

[Kevin.Sturmer]

If it is not on a locked/frozen/off layer - use the QSELECT command.

Enter QSELECT
From "Object type:" select "Viewports"
From "Operator:" select "Select All"
Click "OK"