Framing in Revit 7.0

[Joef]

Is there a tutorial that shows how to use the framing features in Revit? I've searched through the posts and there are plenty of pictures of framed buildings but very little in the way of step by step. I am trying to do something very simple and it is driving me crazy. The ends of the joist will simply not stay where I want them. They jump to some secret distance from the beam that I am trying to rest them on. This is all 2x's, not steel. I checked out the tutorials but unless I missed something, wood framing is not dealt with. I don't usually show framing (and I probably won't do it again), but just this once I'd like to show it.

[Wes Macaulay]

So you're modelling every joist? Are these exposed so you want to see them? ('Cause I'm too lazy to model them otherwise :mrgreen: )

Two things come to mind... you can click on an object and change locations of the temp dims to drive the beam or joist or whathaveyoustructuralobjectthingy... you might have to draw a temporary line close to the end of the object before you get a temp dim that's going the right direction... or just use a dimension to locate the end the way you want.

One tip I found out about embarassingly late in my Revit career was overriding the detail level settings in the view's visibility dialog to change structural members to show Medium detail - otherwise you get the heavy line such as structural eng's like to see in their drawings...

HTH?

[Joef]

I'm just doing a bit of framing for a deck addition. The structural 2x8's behaved very erratically when I tried to get them to but against a foundation wall. I'm not sure what the theory is but I got things to settle down by fiddling with the structural category of the elements involved. It would be nice if I could just change all the structural elements to an architectural category and shut down some of the "smarts" Next time I'll just draw them in on the section. I was hoping to automate things a bit.

[Mr Spot]

For a deck use the structural beam system tool. simple draw the boundary of the deck, set the beam member types, their spacing and direction and there you go.

Beauty is it can still be manipulated as one element.

[Joef]

I used the structural beam tool. The ends of the beams would not locate where I drew them. The beam in the drawing was placed so that it touched the foundation wall. In section it is clear that it does not. When I tried to drag it to the wall it would not stay there. I finally got it to look right but it took a lot of fiddling. I'm not sure why.

[Steven Campbell]

I used the structural beam tool. The ends of the beams would not locate where I drew them. The beam in the drawing was placed so that it touched the foundation wall. In section it is clear that it does not. When I tried to drag it to the wall it would not stay there. I finally got it to look right but it took a lot of fiddling. I'm not sure why.
Without getting into a long winded explanation of structural families.. try this one.

Steven Campbell
Autodesk Revit

[Joef]

Thanks for the file. I tried it and here is the result. I am trying to get this 2x6 to sit on a ledger which is attached to a foundation wall. It will not do this. I cannot change the dimension to zero, or align it or move it closer to the wall. It either goes through the concrete wall of stands 1.5 inches off of it.

[Steven Campbell]

Thanks for the file. I tried it and here is the result. I am trying to get this 2x6 to sit on a ledger which is attached to a foundation wall. It will not do this. I cannot change the dimension to zero, or align it or move it closer to the wall. It either goes through the concrete wall of stands 1.5 inches off of it.It looks to me like the 2x is attached to the ledger and not the foundation wall. Try moving the ledger away from the foundation wall temporarily. Then re-snap the 2x to the foundation, it should stop flush to the face, then move the ledger back.

The family is set to be flush with the connected beam or structural wall. On that note, is the foundation wall set to bearing? Maybe the reason the beam is snapping to the ledger and not giving you any snapping to the foundation.

Steven Campbell
Autodesk Revit

[Joef]

I moved the ledger, moved the beam then moved the ledger back. That seemed to work. I zoomed out and realized that the other end of the beam had moved. I moved that back to where it was supposed to go (it won't actually locate where I want it) then checked the beam on the ledger and it had moved away again. Back to square 1. I'm not sure this is worth all my time and effort. I was under the impression that people used these framing tools all the time. I'd like to know how in the world they make any money at it because I am certainly not.

[Mr Spot]

One last idea/test; try placing the beam using the basic component command rather than structural beam, I seem to remember my beams behaving differently doing this.

BTW, Before i was talking about the structural beam ""system" ...

[Joef]

I used the dimension lumber from the modeling component menu and it is still a structural element and still behaves badly.
I used the beam system but it placed the ends of the beams (actually joists) about an inch and a half from where I actually sketched the lines. I also haven't figured out how to get it to draw a joist at the beginning and end of the sketch. I had to place these manually.

[Mr Spot]

I call for a tool, similar to wall joins, that "disallow joins" on structural elements.

[narlee]

I do my own framing for houses and house additions. I model every stick of wood except blocking. (Call me crazy, but I like to do it as it helps me understand some of the nuances of the structure.)

It's easy. Just make an beam and copy it. If you don't feel like showing every one don't. But you get total control and versitility. Since the structural is done after the design is complete, I don't worry about parametrics (I don't live and die by Revit's connecting-parametric abilities, there's so many other things about it to love).

Sincerely,
Low Tech & Lazy

[Steven Campbell]

OK, one more try here... I modified the beam family to have an extension parameter at each end, which is instance based. So load this one and select the beam and put 1 1/2" into the start and/or end extension parameter.


Steven Campbell
Autodesk Revit

[Scott D Davis]

I model every stick of wood except blocking.
ok, now you've gone too far.....no blocking??? :)

[Joef]

Thanks for the file. That works OK as long as I remember which way I drew the joist :-) I would have thought that the easiest way to accomplish this task would be to simply draw the beam and have the ends land where you place them. In another thread here, someone from Revit stated that the approach to the overall design of Revit was to include many advanced features but not to make them get in the way of users who don't need them. I guess the answer is for me to create my own dimensional lumber and not try to use Revit's if I am not doing structural analysis. Thanks for the assistance!

[Joef]

Here is another example. I drew a rectangle with the beam system tool and tried to align the ends of the 2x6's with the edge of the underlying beams. They instead extend 1/2" past the edge of the beam.(the beam has been set to all of the different uses from other to purlin) If I try to use the new beam extension parameter to set the end back where I drew it, the message states "cannot make beam". Sorry to make a big fuss about all this but it just seems to me that something as simple as this shouldn't be such a struggle. If I am going about it incorrectly, please direct me to the correct approach.

[Thomas Cummings]

What am I missing here. Why can we not have a dimensional lumber family that is not structural, but only a 3-d representation of the framing? "Stretchable sticks" What family type would be used in it's creation?

Thomas

[narlee]

"ok, now you've gone too far.....no blocking???"
I would never have admitted it, there's a certain anonymity to online confessions that I find liberating.

[Steven Campbell]

Here is another example. I drew a rectangle with the beam system tool and tried to align the ends of the 2x6's with the edge of the underlying beams. They instead extend 1/2" past the edge of the beam.(the beam has been set to all of the different uses from other to purlin) If I try to use the new beam extension parameter to set the end back where I drew it, the message states "cannot make beam". Sorry to make a big fuss about all this but it just seems to me that something as simple as this shouldn't be such a struggle. If I am going about it incorrectly, please direct me to the correct approach.
Ah, beam systems use the standard system setback, this is news to me. The quick fix is too use the original family for the beam system and the modified version for everything else renamed to something else so they do not conflict.

I could modify the beam again to work but I think it would be too confusing having an extension and a cutback on each end.

Hope this help... I will see if I can think up a better, simpler solution.

Steven Campbell
Autodesk Revit