Perpendicular UV Grids ?

[cliff collins]

(Posted in Conceptual Mass forum also..)

Canted walls, in an in-place Conceptual Mass.

How can the Divided Surface have 90 degree grids, in both vertical and horizontal directions
on the canted form, which also has a non rectangular profile?

I'm using a rectangular pattern, and I can get EITHER the horizontal U or V grids to align with the intersect ref. planes, OR the vertical--but not BOTH.

Anyone know how to do this? It seems like such a simple, basic thing...........LOL

see attached.

cheers

[Scott D Davis]

First, edit the Mass in-place. You need to turn off the U and V "automatic" divisions by toggling them off in the Ribbon, toggle off the Patternm and set the pattern to the surface to "none" in the Type Selector. Then use the "intersects" tool to select all the ref planes you have drawn to make your own custom divisions. Then Finish the intersects, then finish the Mass.

I've re-attached your corrected file for your reference. Let me know if you can;t figure it out!

[cliff collins]

Thanks, Scott.

I actually tried using "no pattern" and I could get either horizontals or verticals
to use the intersects, but not both.

I'm looking at your file to figure out your method.

Thanks for the quick reply. ( Believe it or not, this is for a real project! )

Edit: I think I get it--turn OFF the U and V completeky, and substitute it with the "intersects"--not both intersects and U V "defaults".....

cheers

[Scott D Davis]

yes you can literally draw anything you want with model lines and then use the "intersects" tool to use the model lines to cut the face of the shape. this of course means you need to turn off the "default" divisions that Revit does.

[cliff collins]

Either I have had my head in the sand, ( probably! ) or that is one of the best known
secrets in the Conceptual Massing tools! Turn off UV and sketch away-- very cool.

I'm now off the Adaptive Component land, as the edges did not fill in correctly
with a simple rectangular curtain panel extrusion.

Now for a bit of reality:
For this exercise--a fairly simple curtainwall that is tilted in the vertical plane,
and with a sloped top/edited profile--the Conceptual Mass/Pattern method is a lot of work ( and learning curve, mostly) to achieve a form that could VERY easily be done thus: ( except we don't have all the tools yet...)

1. Create the curtainwalls as normal/"plumb" variety.
2. Edit their profiles at the top and sides.
3. Then specify the angle of inclination, with "Cliff's New Super Tilt Wall Tool" ! LOL
4. Then edit profiles or better yet trim with "Cliff's New Trim Angled/Non-rectangular Profile walls" trimmer/3D mitering tool!

How many more years will we have to wait for a tilt wall function?!!!!!!! Arghh

cheers

[Alfredo Medina]

Here's another alternative of solution: See illustration.

First, I trace some reference planes and take some dimensions to know in advance the angles and offsets I am going to need later. Then, I create an In-Place mass as a box as per the dimensions I need. Then, I edit the mass raising one of the edges of the top surface. Then, I use Curtain System on the front face, and yes, because of the slope on the top surface, the horizontal mullions are in an angle, the same angle of the top, but the angle is consistent, since the wall is still vertical. So the angle can be corrected in the wall's type properties, by using the opposite value (-5 dg.) of the upper slope (5 dg.), to make the mullions horizontal again. Now I edit the In-Place, aligning the face that hosts the curtain wall to my slanted reference plane in elevation (without locking). Now the mass has a slanted front face but the curtain wall is still vertical. Now just use Update to Face, and voila, the curtain wall is slanted, the top has a slope, and all the horizontal mullions are indeed horizontal.

[cliff collins]

Alfredo,

Thanks for that reply. Good tips.

However, it is not that easy in my example, since the Mass also has sloped
angles on the profile in elevation, which causes the gridlines to "splay"
when creating a curtain system from the face.

So--this is why I brought it into 2011 and used the Divided Surface and Pattern approach,
as Scott demonstrates.

see attached.

cheers

[cliff collins]

Scott,

I got the Divided Surface working, but I'm having trouble making this into a curtain wall,
which uses a standard 2" x 5" mullion system.

Can you try taking the next steps and creating a curtain wall for the face with
the Divided surface? Using the Pattern Based Curtain Panel, I can not get it to clean up properly, even with Adaptive Components at the edges, with "partial" or "none" settings on the borders. Seems you can set it to EITHER the Curtain Panel OR Adaptive Component,
but how do you achieve BOTH?

Another question came up:
When using the Curtain Panel Pattern Based family, do you create the mullion extrusion,
and the glazing in the same family, or "nest" the glazing in the extrusion family?
Any reason for either approach?

cheers

[Alfredo Medina]

Cliff,

It is possible without UV grids, nor adaptive patterns. Just with a mass and Curtain Systems, it is possible to do exactly what you are trying to do. The solution is described in my previous message, but you did not try it. In my previous example the wall had a vertical slope and also a slope at the top. In this example, more similar to your file and model, the two walls on the side are not tilted, but have slope on the top, and only the front long wall is tilted. And all the horizontal mullions are indeed horizontal, and aligned.

[Alfredo Medina]

If the side walls are tilted, the technique described in my first message works. But if the side walls are not tilted, but just have angles in their profile in elevations, as I can see in your model, why not just use Edit profile?

Edit: there was some slight inclination in the side walls, so this Edit profile solution does not apply here.

[cliff collins]

Alfredo,

It's a bit hard to explain. I did try it, and it does not work because in your example the vertical lines of the tilted walls are straight--not flared out in elevation. This causes the curtain grids when applied to the face to "flare" out, and not maintain an orthogonal arrangement. the rotate setting merely rotates all of them--but they remain "flared"--as if going to a vanishing point in perspective, as a result of the warped plane they are on.
Unless I'm missing something?---

This is why a Divided Surface must be used, with UV turned off, and ref. planes then used for the 90 degree "intersects". Then adaptive components to clean up odd corners.
Take a look at Scott's model he posted.

Lots of work. Wish it was as easy as converting the faces of a Mass or having a "tilt wall" tool would be even better! Build it "plumb", then tilt and adjust profiles/miter corners.

See attached.

cheers

[Scott D Davis]

Scott,

I got the Divided Surface working, but I'm having trouble making this into a curtain wall,
which uses a standard 2" x 5" mullion system.

Can you try taking the next steps and creating a curtain wall for the face with
the Divided surface? Using the Pattern Based Curtain Panel, I can not get it to clean up properly, even with Adaptive Components at the edges, with "partial" or "none" settings on the borders. Seems you can set it to EITHER the Curtain Panel OR Adaptive Component,
but how do you achieve BOTH?

Another question came up:
When using the Curtain Panel Pattern Based family, do you create the mullion extrusion,
and the glazing in the same family, or "nest" the glazing in the extrusion family?
Any reason for either approach?

cheers

it's a combination of a Curtain Panel Pattern Based family and an adaptive component. First, make a Curtain Panel Pattern Based family using the square pattern. Create a sweep with a 2x5 mullion profile and a extrusion for the glazing/panel portion. Load that into the project and set your surface to your new loaded family. Set the borders to None. This will fill in all the "normal" rectangular shapes, and the irregular shapes that have 4 points at thier corners. Then make an adaptive component based on 3 points. Again, sweep a 2x5 proile around this shape, and make an extrusion for the panel itself. Load this into the project. Now, with the 3-point panel loaded, begin to pick point 1 of one of the left over triangles. then point 2, then point 3. This will "adapt" this 3-point panel to your pattern. Repeat for all the remaining triangular "blank" panels.

Does that help? I will try and make it for you later if i get a chance!

[cliff collins]

Thanks Scott,

I think I've got it working.......

cheers

[WYSIWYG-BIM]

Cliff/Scott

Thanks so much guys for your posts1 I have been racking my brain over this for two days and I didn't realize the grid thing was a toggel. Awesome.

My wall is similar to your Cliff only it is curved also.

so now that I have the mass with the Divided Surface what is the next step? I can't snap to it, can't dimension to it, can't turn it in to a curtain wall... or can I? am I missing something here? my pattern and Component options are greyed out. I tired snapping my adaptive components on it and 1). It wouldn't snap to the intersections and 2). it gives me a cant make type error.

Help please!?

[WYSIWYG-BIM]

answering my own question here.....

Just figured out that to get the pattern and the components i need to keep selecting my surface and choosing from the type selector. I don't kno why that wasn't obvious to me the first few attemps.