How many users can access the central file at once?

[tdybenko]

Hi All,

I have tried (unsuccessfully) to search the Internet on this topic. With our current project in Revit, we are at 95% completion of CD’s. To help with the final push, we have added several people to the project team to help with detailing etc. As a result, we have nine people accessing the central file at any given time. Our file access now is incredibly slow (file size of approx 145 MB, I know it is quite large). My question arises when you consider the following: If one user is accessing the file, there is no issue regarding speed. The user can navigate easily, switch views easy, and ‘synchronize with central’ takes under a minute. When we have multiple people on the file (nine), the speed for everything is reduced (i.e. switching views is painfully slow, accessing the detail component menu from the ribbon takes over a min just for the menu bar to show up.) One time, it took a user over 30 minutes to synchronize with central. I know multiple users can cause Revit to work in overdrive to monitor everyone’s work on the project, but typically, what should I expect?

Does anyone have any experience with how many users should ideally be accessing the file at any point? What is the ideal number of people to be working on a single file? Moving forward, we are going to break up future projects with multiple models (i.e. floors, exterior skin all separated and linked together.) With this project near completion, I am hesitant to do this at this point.

Insight is appreciated,

Trevor

[dmoodydesign]

I won't comment on your future approach, but we recently had a very large file going in the office. We were working on Revit 2010 in Windows Vista and had anywhere from 5-13 people working on the file at the same time. I diligently monitored the status and save time for everyone and don't think the sync times were much more than 1 minute to 1.5 minutes. This file hovers in the 130mb to 200mb range and is easily the biggest one I have ever seen.

I don't think user interaction in the file had anything to do with other users, but instead based solely on how much information in the model they were trying to work with. I never saw much slow down in my work, but I worked in close cropped views and section boxes with 10-20% of the model on at any given time. I have notices smaller files that I am working on now to be a bit zippier, but at the time is was perfectly usable with half the office in the file at a time.

Our biggest slow down was when our partner company out of province got in the file to do work. Their open, save, and sync times hammered us for 20-30 minutes every time. That will be the last time I ever let that happen again!

Hope that helps.


Hi All,

I have tried (unsuccessfully) to search the Internet on this topic. With our current project in Revit, we are at 95% completion of CD’s. To help with the final push, we have added several people to the project team to help with detailing etc. As a result, we have nine people accessing the central file at any given time. Our file access now is incredibly slow (file size of approx 145 MB, I know it is quite large). My question arises when you consider the following: If one user is accessing the file, there is no issue regarding speed. The user can navigate easily, switch views easy, and ‘synchronize with central’ takes under a minute. When we have multiple people on the file (nine), the speed for everything is reduced (i.e. switching views is painfully slow, accessing the detail component menu from the ribbon takes over a min just for the menu bar to show up.) One time, it took a user over 30 minutes to synchronize with central. I know multiple users can cause Revit to work in overdrive to monitor everyone’s work on the project, but typically, what should I expect?

Does anyone have any experience with how many users should ideally be accessing the file at any point? What is the ideal number of people to be working on a single file? Moving forward, we are going to break up future projects with multiple models (i.e. floors, exterior skin all separated and linked together.) With this project near completion, I am hesitant to do this at this point.

Insight is appreciated,

Trevor

[twiceroadsfool]

You shouldnt be experiencing what you are. Not to that extreme, anyway.

145 MB isnt all that large, depending on the SF and detail level of the project. The extreme slowdown makes me think that maybe their are either: A lot of overdone constraints/warnings in the model, or some network hindrances.

Weve got a model thats 300ish MB, for 450,000 Square Feet, plus a 70MB Exterior Skin file and a 70 MB Structural File. We had 7-9 users in it at the end, and SWC times were about 4 minutes. Of course, i attribute THAT as well, to problems internally with our model.

I wouldnt consider cutting up the model, as youre just going to cut the problems in to smaller pieces. I would figure out whats causing the delay, and get to the root of it.

[tdybenko]

We are using Revit 2010.

We have a four story building, totaling 80,000 SF

All users are in the same office (including Mechanical and Electrical and Architectural)

[patricks]

We are using Revit 2010.

We have a four story building, totaling 80,000 SF

All users are in the same office (including Mechanical and Electrical and Architectural)

ah hah! If all disciplines are trying to use the same model, that's your problem. Each discipline should have their own model with the other models linked in. I know it seems like it would be better to have it all in one model, and eventually it will be, but the technology just isn't "there" yet to make a single model a viable solution for all disciplines to use.

[tdybenko]

I was not clear:

Mechanical, Electrical, and Structural each have their own separate models which we have linked into architectural.

So, we have four models total (1 for each discipline) but we all work under the same roof (same server access etc).

Thanks,

Trevor

[heinarantac]

I don't know if there is an answer to how many you can have access a central file. As many as you need?

For what it's worth... I'm working on a 2.1M sq.ft. project, about 300MB with 19 revit links, 7-12 users at any given point in the day. Save times around typically under 5mins, but will occasionaly hit 10mins. One of our other offices, in another city, is near 20-30minutes per save... but we think it's the connection between offices slowing things down. Using Revit 2011 and Vista.

[Scott Womack]

Mechanical, Electrical, and Structural each have their own separate models which we have linked into architectural.
So, we have four models total (1 for each discipline) but we all work under the same roof (same server access etc).

If you are linking in the line central models of the MEP models, that is the root of the issue. At Autodesk University, it has "come to light" that hen on the same network, you should be linking in a local file (copy) of the other disciplines central files. This is because when you Save to Central, it will have to perform all of the M, the E, and the P calculations as it saves to central. Linking in a local copy of the central file, will "break" this calculation.

[cliff collins]

Scott,

Interesting tip. We don't have in-house consultants, but what if the MEP eng. connects
via a WAN/WAFS system? Does it still have to run the calculations when saving?
If so, what's the best practice for this scenario?

cheers

[tdybenko]

Thanks everyone for the tips. I have examined worksets in our project and subsequently closed many which are not immediately needed (i.e.interiors, casework, finishes etc). I have noticed an improvement with SWC times (reduced by about a min.)

Scott, I will try your suggestion about linking in a local copy of structural, mechanical and electrical. This negates (in my opinion) the benefit of integrated project delivery. As our office contains all disciplines under one roof, we pride ourselves on the ability of project integration and coordination. We have each linked the central files into our respective models so we can see real time changes among all disciplines (this is the main idea of the program, no?) By linking a local copy, now each department has to create local copies for each other departments use (one extra step). This is not a huge deal, but in my opinion should not be required. I will try and let you know.

Regarding groups--I have read that detail and model groups can add significantly to file size. I understand that if I create detail components (not detail groups) I can save on file size. Problem is that I have created many detail groups (project specific) in my main project model. If I try to create a new detail component (using the detail components family template, ) I cannot copy my 2D detail groups from the main model to the new detail component family. The error says I cannot copy from a project to a family. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Trevor

[twiceroadsfool]

Scott, I will try your suggestion about linking in a local copy of structural, mechanical and electrical. This negates (in my opinion) the benefit of integrated project delivery. As our office contains all disciplines under one roof, we pride ourselves on the ability of project integration and coordination. We have each linked the central files into our respective models so we can see real time changes among all disciplines (this is the main idea of the program, no?) By linking a local copy, now each department has to create local copies for each other departments use (one extra step). This is not a huge deal, but in my opinion should not be required. I will try and let you know.


IPD and Collaborative worksharing is much more than just getting every whizbang change, every second of the day. If someone downstairs changes something Critical? Drag a new local copy to your Architecture folder, and do a Reload from. No big deal. Youre still better off than hving to FTP and file transfer.

Even in firms ive worked in where we HAD multiple disciplines in house, we didnt do Central to Central. It creates a lot of confusion when someone hits SWC and half the structure disappears, while the engineer reconfigures something. A once a day file transfer is my preference anyway.



Regarding groups--I have read that detail and model groups can add significantly to file size. I understand that if I create detail components (not detail groups) I can save on file size. Problem is that I have created many detail groups (project specific) in my main project model. If I try to create a new detail component (using the detail components family template, ) I cannot copy my 2D detail groups from the main model to the new detail component family. The error says I cannot copy from a project to a family. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Trevor

File size- by itself- doesnt mean squat. Its usually also indicative of something else wrong, when files start to "bulge" but using groups INCORRECTLY hamper performance becuase of group behavior. Using detail groups in the way Detail Components are supposed to be used? Yes, that will make the project drag rediculously. Suggestions? eat the time, and redo them as detail components. Its the right thing to do.

Groups- when used correctly, dont hamper performance. Our training model has a few hundred groups in it, no issues whatsoever. Both types of groups (Model and detail) have a time and a place: Drawing a piece of blocking isnt one of them. ;)

[Scott Womack]

By linking a local copy, now each department has to create local copies for each other departments use (one extra step). This is not a huge deal, but in my opinion should not be required.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that I BELIEVE this is a correct work flow. I only meant that for not, it is the one that works. As to the making of local copies, you can automate this with a good old-fashioned dos batch file. Write the batch file, make it look to Revit for the Icon, and have it copy the file(s) over then start Revit. Not much of an issue.


Regarding groups--I have read that detail and model groups can add significantly to file size. I understand that if I create detail components (not detail groups) I can save on file size. Problem is that I have created many detail groups (project specific) in my main project model. If I try to create a new detail component (using the detail components family template, ) I cannot copy my 2D detail groups from the main model to the new detail component family. The error says I cannot copy from a project to a family.

Save the groups out to file, then use the Insert menu and load them into family editor as a "group". It is faster IMHO to start a new detail component family, add the items you want, then add/push it into the model family, attach it an item, set the detail levels, and you're good to go.

[sifuentes]

You may find some answers in this AU 2009 class:

Chaos: Multidiscipline, Multi-Firm, Multi-Location Autodesk® Revit® Projects (http://au.autodesk.com/?nd=class&session_id=5388)

There is one piece of advise similar to what Scott has mentioned; not to link the central files that are being accessed to work on by other team members, but instead, to create a copy that would only be used for linking, and not to have any type of access at all except to update it.