Strategy for Adding Floors

[phyllisr]

In this case, we are not just adding levels in Revit, we are actually adding floors to a building. I am looking for some suggestions from anyone who has actually executed a similar project. With all due respect, theoretical Revit solutions are a place to start but there is no substitute for field experience.

Scope Description

We are nearing the end of CDs for a Medical Office Building. Some space will be owner-occupied and some will be leased. The building has two floors but was designed for two additional floors.
The original building will be issued as a complete set for pricing very soon. The construction contract will be awarded based on this set and construction (specifically footings and foundation) will begin very soon.
Plan review, permits and more will be based on a two-floor building.
The owner has decided to add the two additional floors as soon as construction starts on the original building. He will negotiate the contract with the contractor after the original building contract is signed.
We will issue a new set for plan review and permitting after we complete the work.


We have considered several options in Revit but since we have not done this previously, I am looking for real-world advice. We are considering the following strategies.

Create a new Revit model for the new floors and link the current model into the new one. The anticipated difficulty is gluing it all back together as one model when both projects are complete.
Create a phase in the current model for the two new floors and issue the second set of documents from the original model. The anticipated difficulty is the discipline required by a team to ensure the phases are handled correctly. It may also be a CA nightmare to handle construction bulletins and RFIs in a model that is also active for a second phase.
Create a detached copy of the original model and add the new floors. Though the final model will be complete, this means double-editing through CA to ensure the first two floors are accurately documented in two projects. This is a huge waste of time.


Let me know if you have other thoughts or can share experiences (good or bad) with a similar project.

Thank you.

[twiceroadsfool]

Im not sure what aspect of this project youre qualifying "real-world" experience as:

1. A "real" project with multiple phases?
2. A "real" project to add on a couple of floors after the documents are done?
3. Specifically a healthcare job where a client decided to do this after the fact?

I mean, its not that uncommon. Having said that, we've done it, and have a project going on right now thats very similar. It has multiple packages, going out at multiple times, that all build on one another. Were using Revit Phasing. Does it require discipline? Yes. Is it a CA Nightmare? It shouldnt be. It never was on the mutiphase add on work i did for years in Revit.

Can you do it with Links? Yes, ive done that too. It makes it easier to set up the sheets, since you dont have to deal with the other file. Then you just need to deal with Linked Views, and the working in two models, when you need to demolish and detail connections, which will happen. As for stitching it back together... if thats your intent, dont work in Links. Ive done multiphase work and left the links seperate, which is what i would do IF i went that road (not saying i would. If your hardware supports the project fine, id use one model and phasing).

Option 3 is a total mess. Why have two of the same thing you have to update? That idea will just be a cluster____, with no upside.

As with anything in revit, you just need to know the upsides and downsides. Phasing? Works fine, all in one model. Youll want scope boxies for grids. You can name sheets the same thing. (You cant have an A-101 in the second set. This doesnt bother me, since im not against doing 1A-101 and 2A-101, or the NCS compliant A-101-1 and A-101-2. You decide.

Downsides of Links? Linked Views, tagging, two models, moving content back and forth, learning curve of working with Linked Views. I like Links, and i use them on large complex projects. I DONT use them as phases, so i wouldnt use them here.

[phyllisr]

...qualifying "real-world" experience...
Essentially, I meant a "real" project rather than something tested in Revit but not tried in an actual billable project constructed in the field through CA. When we migrated to Revit over 5 years ago, we had all sorts of workflow solutions based on what we thought might work. In most cases, we were correct but in some cases, we back-pedaled and changed our strategy entirely.

We also have added floors to buildings in Revit but this is typically after the original structure was either complete or nearly complete. In these cases, phasing was all we needed.

In this particular case, we have a team finishing the set for the original 2-story to meet the state review deadline. Concurrent with this crunch schedule, we must to resolve the changes to the stairs and elevators and modify the roof for adding the next two floors so the structural consultant can start those calcuations. If we can make it work, we will submit for plan review 10/4 on the 2-story, save a record copy of the model and move right into CDs for the additional floors. We can then submit the changes for plan review very quickly and issue a complete set for the 4-story building to the contractror so he is not managing multiple sets. The difficulty is managing the 2-story and 4-story concurrently for the next few weeks so one effort does not trip over the other. In the end, the contractor will be seeing this as one project, not as an alteration. Clear as mud?

In any case, your response was useful. We have a preliminary strategy in place that we are all going to consider over the weekend and make a final decision by Monday. Will post what we decided if you are interested.

[aggockel50321]

I'd say option 2 with phases. You can also consider/use design options or worksets to keep a bit more workflow separation and order.

[twiceroadsfool]

I wouldnt use Design Options, OR Worksets, but thats just me. People always "miss" and get the wrong workset, and Design Options get hairy with multiple people editing it.

Sounds to me like you SHOULDNT have any issues using Phases, as long as your team is paying attention. Heres what i do:

I create a bunch of phase specific working views in our TEMPLATE. You cant, since the project started, but go in and make a handful of views, and INCLUDE the phase and filter in the view name (our standard has this). The *only* thing you need is for people to not mess up and go in the wrong view, ad they shouldnt have ANY issue working side by side.

[arqt49]

Phasing seems the perfect option.
I did that a couple of years ago for some extra floors.
It isn't that hard to control. I just added some 3d views to control components lost in the wrong phases.
The beauty of it is that I also controlled select demolitions. For example, first phase roof insulation and finish demolished and new floor finish added in second phase.

[phyllisr]

.,,post what we decided...
All projects are different so I cannot state with any certainty that we would do this in other circumstances but for this team and this project here is what we decided. We are doing this because the window for managing two models is very short and the changes are very simple.

Thank you all for your feedback.

Background

The only changes will be the window placement on the fourth floor, the entry curtain wall system and the roof.
The original building had a floor structure at the roof already and when the two floors were added, the intent was to remove the topping only.
The roof is the most pressing piece to resolve.

Strategy

Create a temporary model for the two additional floors.
Link the original 2-floor model into the temporary one. Copy/Monitor the grids and levels.
Add the levels for the two new floors.
Develop the roof plan and structure including coping and other changes in the new model (add walls to host the windows on the fourth floor to reflect the changes, correct the curtain wall assembly at the entry to extend two more floors).
Once the 2-story is issued for permit, SAVEAS for a record copy.
Move the roof level to the new height for a 4-floor building in the 2-story model
and add the intermediate levels. Remove the entire roof from the original building and remove the entire curtain wall assembly at the entrance.
Copy/paste the new roof and the fourth floor windows from the temporary model to the original model then delete the temporary model.


Done.